Hahrie Han

And then for a year, this group met and debated over and over every little design element in the program. And they had really deep debates about things like, should we require... people when we're organizing them into small groups to do this work, to have those groups be multiracial.

And then for a year, this group met and debated over and over every little design element in the program. And they had really deep debates about things like, should we require... people when we're organizing them into small groups to do this work, to have those groups be multiracial.

And they brought in someone from Procter and Gamble who ran the DEI work at Procter and Gamble, who said, it doesn't matter what the racial makeup of the group is because the, what you're trying to do is you're trying to teach people about things like implicit racism. It doesn't matter who they're in a group with.

And they brought in someone from Procter and Gamble who ran the DEI work at Procter and Gamble, who said, it doesn't matter what the racial makeup of the group is because the, what you're trying to do is you're trying to teach people about things like implicit racism. It doesn't matter who they're in a group with.

You're just kind of teaching them what implicit racism is, you know, and the instinct of the people in the group, a lot of, you know, whom were black leaders in the city were saying that, No, that's just not true, right?

You're just kind of teaching them what implicit racism is, you know, and the instinct of the people in the group, a lot of, you know, whom were black leaders in the city were saying that, No, that's just not true, right?

Because, you know, people's experience in their small group is going to be ground zero for them trying new ways of being and acting with each other and trying new ways of being and acting across race. And if we don't give them that experience of doing that, then just pouring information into their head about implicit racism is not going to work at all.

Because, you know, people's experience in their small group is going to be ground zero for them trying new ways of being and acting with each other and trying new ways of being and acting across race. And if we don't give them that experience of doing that, then just pouring information into their head about implicit racism is not going to work at all.

You know, so there are things that they just kind of did instinctively, but the debates themselves were really interesting and helping to, I think, uncover some of these key elements.

You know, so there are things that they just kind of did instinctively, but the debates themselves were really interesting and helping to, I think, uncover some of these key elements.

Yeah, okay. So here's what I think is, so here are a couple of things I think that come out of it. First is that risk, the ability for people to be comfortable taking risk is underestimated in most DEI programs, right? And so in a lot of DEI programs, it's like, you're telling me the way that I should behave. You're trying to script my behavior.

Yeah, okay. So here's what I think is, so here are a couple of things I think that come out of it. First is that risk, the ability for people to be comfortable taking risk is underestimated in most DEI programs, right? And so in a lot of DEI programs, it's like, you're telling me the way that I should behave. You're trying to script my behavior.

If it's run by lawyers, it's probably in a legalistic way to minimize liability for my employer, right? But even in the programs that aren't run by lawyers, often they're trying to sort of give people a sense of what the correct answer is in different kinds of situations that we might confront when we have to work with people who are different from a different background from us.

If it's run by lawyers, it's probably in a legalistic way to minimize liability for my employer, right? But even in the programs that aren't run by lawyers, often they're trying to sort of give people a sense of what the correct answer is in different kinds of situations that we might confront when we have to work with people who are different from a different background from us.

And Undivided didn't really script answers. Instead, what they were doing is they would do something like explain the neuroscience of empathy.

And Undivided didn't really script answers. Instead, what they were doing is they would do something like explain the neuroscience of empathy.

You know, that like what empathy is asking you to do is to not just like, you know, have your first, you know, automatic reaction, but to stop and sort of say, if I was to not just react instinctively to this person, but instead think about how I might want to be treated in that situation, then what would I do? You know, and so they'll explain that.

You know, that like what empathy is asking you to do is to not just like, you know, have your first, you know, automatic reaction, but to stop and sort of say, if I was to not just react instinctively to this person, but instead think about how I might want to be treated in that situation, then what would I do? You know, and so they'll explain that.

But then and then they would give people the opportunity to practice it. But because people are having, you know, white people are having to practice with black people, black people are having to practice with white people. It sort of forced them to kind of have this experience of trying new ways of being and then seeing what feedback they got, you know.

But then and then they would give people the opportunity to practice it. But because people are having, you know, white people are having to practice with black people, black people are having to practice with white people. It sort of forced them to kind of have this experience of trying new ways of being and then seeing what feedback they got, you know.