Hahrie Han

I don't know that I've seen data that like people who are doing it as white evangelicals on the conservative side are necessarily white. have a stronger identity than people on the white Christian side who are also on the left. But I think it's more that they're nested within structures and those structures kind of channel that political power in a different way.

I don't know that I've seen data that like people who are doing it as white evangelicals on the conservative side are necessarily white. have a stronger identity than people on the white Christian side who are also on the left. But I think it's more that they're nested within structures and those structures kind of channel that political power in a different way.

You know, this makes me, Albert Hirschman is a political scientist who wrote this like terrific book in the mid 20th century called Exit, Voice, and Loyalty. where he talks about the idea that, you know, the fundamental logic of market organizations is different from the fundamental logic of what should be political organizations.

You know, this makes me, Albert Hirschman is a political scientist who wrote this like terrific book in the mid 20th century called Exit, Voice, and Loyalty. where he talks about the idea that, you know, the fundamental logic of market organizations is different from the fundamental logic of what should be political organizations.

The idea being that market organizations operate on the logic of exit, which is that if I don't like your product, right, I go and I find another one. So if I don't like Cheerios, I go buy Chex, right? If I don't like Heinz, I go buy Hunt's ketchup or whatever the thing is, right? Whereas political organizations shouldn't operate on the logic of exit, right?

The idea being that market organizations operate on the logic of exit, which is that if I don't like your product, right, I go and I find another one. So if I don't like Cheerios, I go buy Chex, right? If I don't like Heinz, I go buy Hunt's ketchup or whatever the thing is, right? Whereas political organizations shouldn't operate on the logic of exit, right?

So if I don't like what your candidate is doing or I don't like what your organization is doing, instead of just going and finding another product or an organization that has a similar but better product, instead what I should do is exercise voice. Right. I should stay and I should try to advocate and change what I think is the right thing to do. But that's a much harder ask of people. Right.

So if I don't like what your candidate is doing or I don't like what your organization is doing, instead of just going and finding another product or an organization that has a similar but better product, instead what I should do is exercise voice. Right. I should stay and I should try to advocate and change what I think is the right thing to do. But that's a much harder ask of people. Right.

And in order to have that, people need loyalty. That's hence the title of the book, Exit, Voice and Loyalty. And I think.

And in order to have that, people need loyalty. That's hence the title of the book, Exit, Voice and Loyalty. And I think.

I would sort of say that the difference between the left and the right is less about identity and more about the fact that a lot of the left-leaning organizations that drive participation on the left tend to operate more on the logic of exit, whereas the ones on the right have become more effective at operating on that logic of voice.

I would sort of say that the difference between the left and the right is less about identity and more about the fact that a lot of the left-leaning organizations that drive participation on the left tend to operate more on the logic of exit, whereas the ones on the right have become more effective at operating on that logic of voice.

And so they're able to channel activity and sort of sustain disagreement and sustain that kind of deliberation in a different way.

And so they're able to channel activity and sort of sustain disagreement and sustain that kind of deliberation in a different way.

Absolutely. I mean, you know, there's a, there's a terrific group of scholars right now who've done a lot of work kind of looking at what are the roots of this kind of, you know, quest for what people call kind of Christian nationalism, you know, within evangelicalism and how is that tied to some of these theological fights have been going on for a century or more. So, so,

Absolutely. I mean, you know, there's a, there's a terrific group of scholars right now who've done a lot of work kind of looking at what are the roots of this kind of, you know, quest for what people call kind of Christian nationalism, you know, within evangelicalism and how is that tied to some of these theological fights have been going on for a century or more. So, so,

That is both true that those roots have been there for sure, but that it became, in the United States at least, it became much more pronounced starting around the 1970s. And then it got tied to a partisan agenda, you know, by the end of the 20th, early 21st century. And once it got tied to a partisan agenda, then, you know, you began to see this kind of...

That is both true that those roots have been there for sure, but that it became, in the United States at least, it became much more pronounced starting around the 1970s. And then it got tied to a partisan agenda, you know, by the end of the 20th, early 21st century. And once it got tied to a partisan agenda, then, you know, you began to see this kind of...

breaking apart that Trump in some ways is the culmination of. But one thing I will say is, you know, in doing research on this book, one of the things that I realized is that You know, evangelicalism is, like, Protestant evangelicalism is a very rich and varied tradition, and, you know, many of these traditions are.

breaking apart that Trump in some ways is the culmination of. But one thing I will say is, you know, in doing research on this book, one of the things that I realized is that You know, evangelicalism is, like, Protestant evangelicalism is a very rich and varied tradition, and, you know, many of these traditions are.