Helen Pitt

Coming up, how ready is Europe for an American-less future?

So, Deborah, as you say, Trump has threatened to withdraw from NATO altogether.

He's also suggested that he's going to try and get Spain kicked out of NATO.

He's got a particular beef with Pedro Sanchez, the socialist prime minister of Spain.

He's threatened to withdraw troops from Italy and Spain.

And beyond just the question of troop withdrawal from Germany and beyond, because there are also troops in Italy, Spain, the UK, Belgium and other countries –

What is Europe worrying about so much?

What has Trump said and done that is causing such consternation at this point?

Yeah.

Yeah, or Poland, yeah.

Indeed, it's not.

And that is why the Europeans held this slightly odd summit on Tuesday in Armenia, which is a country, let's be honest, they've never really cared about before.

But it is on the border with Russia and Iran.

And the summit was basically all about how to stop Russia's advances beyond Ukraine.

And it was really interesting to see that Mark Carney was there alongside the Europeans.

Another sign, I thought, that the Canadians want to be moving closer to Europe now that they too can't depend on the Americans.

And I guess ringing in all of their ears will be the remarks made by Mark Rutter, the former Dutch Prime Minister, who's now the head of NATO, who said in January... If anyone thinks here, again, that the European Union or Europe as a whole can defend itself without the US, keep on dreaming.

Is that scepticism shared by other European leaders?

Or do they think, do you know what, guys?

If we really put our backs into this, if we really increase defence spending, we can do it and we can do it soon.