Ian Bremmer
Appearances
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I've gone for 15 years. I can assure you that no running of the world is being done by the World Economic Forum.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And it was something that, I mean, if you think where we are today, when, I mean, so many people want to come to the United States, but no one outside the US would say, I want my political system to run like America. It's like, you just wouldn't say that today. But 35 years ago, you would.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
You would, and I think that that was, for me, that was really inspirational, that that was something I was a part of.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I would say the Pledge of Allegiance when I was a kid every morning, and I would put my hand on my heart, and I knew it, and I would sing the Star-Spangled Banner, and those things all felt just like you were going through the motions when you're a kid in public school, but when you then go to the Soviet Union, and when you see the wall come down, you see 15 republics become independent countries,
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And I was in Ukraine in 1992, and I was there for their first ever day of independence. Oh, wow. And you saw ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians all come out in the hundreds of thousands and celebrate the fact that they had independence from the Soviet empire. Suddenly, all those things that you did as a kid really mean something to you. They really inspire you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Like, oh, I'm proud to come from a system where I can do all of these things, where I can say all of this.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
No.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
It's a little different. Tell me why. I'm... I'm very proud to be in a country where I believe that it is still patriotic, essentially patriotic, to say what you disagree with, to say when you think your political leaders are making mistakes. And Lord knows, as an entrepreneur who started his own firm from nothing and with no money,
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
There's no other country in the world that you could have done that. So I'm enormously grateful to have been so lucky that I could be born in a country where we could do the kind of things that you and I do. That's incredible. But I'm a little sad that we have not lived up to the promise of 1989. In 2025. Not the role of the dollar. Not the strength of our military.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Not the fact that we have the best universities everyone wants to come to. But the fact that people don't look up to our political system. The fact that we're so divided in this country right now. That is something that I'm not proud of. I don't like how divided we are.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Because I'm still proud to be an American.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
It probably would have been – oh, definitely after 9-11. Okay. Definitely after 9-11. I was in New York. I saw the second tower go down. You saw the whole city and the whole country come together. And we did some things that we shouldn't have done, and we over-egged all of that.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
But in terms of how the Americans felt about the values that we stand for and not tolerating being attacked by nihilists that just wanted to tear everything down, that made me really proud, absolutely.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Not soon. I mean, honestly, not soon. But I'm an optimist. I think it's incredible that we're here. So, of course, it's possible. I think there are three big things that have happened. One is class division and mobility have become a lot harder in the U.S. So, I mean, back in the 80s and 90s, the United States had some of the greatest class mobility of any advanced industrial democracy.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Today it has some of the least. So you can predict a person's wealth in the United States on the basis of their parents' wealth. much more than you can in other countries like in the UK or Germany or Japan or South Korea. That's not the American dream, right?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So the fact that a lot more young Americans today are not confident that they will have the opportunities that their parents or their grandparents or you and I have had, that's one reason. I think second is identity politics.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I think there was an enormous amount of immigration that came to the United States without a feeling that American leaders were caring about the people that were already here. That's particularly true on the illegal immigration side, but I think it's true generally. The Europeans have already gone through that, and there's now consensus in Europe around that issue.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
The Americans are still very divided on that issue. And then the third is algorithmic. The third is the breakdown in media and our information space, talk radio, cable news, social media, and increasingly AI, so that people around the world get their information in very, very segmented and fragmented ways that tear us apart.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I think that those are the three biggest reasons why the United States today feels so much more divided than it did when you and I were growing up.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I said algorithmic. Algorithmic. But I mean, you know, even before that, I mean, you remember when you and I were kids, the conceit of advertising is that 50% of advertising dollars are completely wasted. We just don't know what 50%. So you just throw money at the wall and you had three big networks and everyone listened to the same networks, they got the same news.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So even before social media, when you think about how people started segmenting when it was Lou Dobbs on CNN, you know, one of the first that really started segmenting, right? Or when it was in a Rush Limbaugh on talk radio. And definitely social media has done that, has amplified that. in an exponential way, but this has been coming for a while now.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
uh i would say i mean much as i want to say it was the people pushing for change and certainly you know you had for years and years and years the americans standing tall with those captive nation parades and all of the people behind the iron curtain that wanted independence and wanted freedom and we had dissidents that would get to the united states illegally right and they would you know become these incredibly inspirational stories about you know how much better it was in the u.s and how repressive it was in the soviet union
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And definitely like there were a lot of big demonstrations that happened first in the Eastern Bloc countries, and then in the Baltics, which had independence more recently, and then in Ukraine, and then even in places like Azerbaijan, Central Asia, right? You'd see it. But after that happened, Gorbachev started leaning into it. When Gorbachev first became General Secretary of the Communist Party,
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
The first things he did were not reform. The first thing he did was like the anti-alcohol campaign. He was kind of like Xi Jinping in the early days, right? He was like, no, no, we just need, we need more control. And then when he realized that this wasn't working,
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
that the economy was falling apart, that they were falling desperately behind the Americans and there was no way to really fix it, he decided to go full on experimental reforms. And he did three different things, right? First, he opens the economy so that people can actually start their own businesses. They can experiment with cooperatives. And that was perestroika, that was restructuring.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And then he created openness in the information space. Glasnost, right? And then he did a third thing, which was self-accounting. He devolved power to these local republics and let the Armenians have control for local Armenia and let the Azeris have control for local Armenia. It's called Khosrashot. And he did those three things simultaneously.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
which is incredible for the people of the former Soviet Union, but I mean, was just giving away the keys to the kingdom to the Soviets no longer had the ability to repress, to impose control in a way that say in Iran today, the Iranians are apt, even though the Iranian people are desperate right, to have freedoms.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
The Iranian people are desperate to be independent from the Islamic Republic, but the military in Iran has absolutely zero willingness to give away that kind of power. Gorbachev did that.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
But you had Voice of America that they were able to get.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I think that Bolsonaro doesn't win in Brazil in the previous cycle if it's not for Facebook. I think that a lot of these leaders, that these populist anti-establishment leaders, many on the right, some on the left. I mean, you look at AMLO and now Shane Baum in Mexico, same basic playbook, right? Which is the establishment is corrupt and entrenched. There's a deep state. They don't care about you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
We're gonna do something completely different. That's how they win. And I think that social media and the ability to communicate directly with the people with comparatively limited amount of funds available is a completely, it's a game changer for, and it undermines the establishment in a lot of these places.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So I'm I'm a political scientist, not an epidemiologist. So I'm not in a good position to try to debate on where RFK is and isn't right or wrong. But I will tell you more.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I understand. But I'm saying more. But more broadly. Right. Right. In terms of whether I think the establishment media has gone way too far on a bunch of issues. You look at the the covid starting with a lab leak. in Wuhan, China. And that was something that clearly was a narrative that the establishment media decided that they did not want to go ahead with.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And I think they did a lot of damage to themselves as a consequence of that, as the Biden administration itself in the last weeks of their presidency did a study and came out and said, yeah, this looks actually very plausible to us. Well, they weren't saying that a couple of years ago. I think those sorts of things undermine.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I think that when Fauci was aware that N95 masks could be effective but other masks weren't, and he wasn't saying that to the people because he didn't want to cause panic and there weren't enough of them, well, that comes back and bites you in the ass when you're not being transparent and accountable to people. Now, more broadly than the stuff around disease and epidemiology,
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
is I think that the Democrats have gone way too far on a bunch of issues that do not align with where the base of the country actually is, the base of the population. I think the Republicans have done that on one big issue. Right. For the Republicans, it was abortion. We had for 50 years Roe versus Wade. Call it settled law. Call it unsettled law. It was very messy. Right.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And it made nobody completely happy. But it happened to reflect where the average American was on abortion. And therefore, it was a pretty good compromise. And when a whole bunch of Republicans decided that they were going to push and push and push the bounds, they ended up losing in a lot of different places. Right.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And Trump and Vance worked really hard to pull that back over the last campaign and say, hey, hey, hey, we're not trying to like do a national abortion ban and stuff like that. Well, the Democrats got over their skis on every identity issue, right? They went way, way farther than the average American was willing to tolerate.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I'm doing good, man.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
They ended up getting completely captured by a small number of elite, well-educated progressives Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
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PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Yeah, I feel the connection already.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So when I went to college, I was really young. I was 15. And I grew up with nothing. I grew up in the projects. I'd never traveled anywhere. I had a professor. This was back in 1986. I had a professor that was leading a trip to the Soviet Union. This is when Gorbachev first came in. This was before reform. This was like super evil empire Reagan days, right? And I begged him, take me on this trip.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
You're a smart guy.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And so here I am as a kid, finding myself halfway around the world, behind the Iron Curtain, authoritarian regime, communism, crazy government, but meeting young people that in many ways are just like you and me. Fascinating. And then three years later, the wall comes down. So I was very much, you know, very impressionable in the right place at the right time.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
irrespective of each of those individual components. Like it was going to be a fairly Herculean task for the Democrats to hold power for another four years after that. given where inflation was, given where migration was, and how they weren't able to handle either of those things. Gaza was also an issue, right? Because there were a lot of people that didn't turn for Trump, but didn't vote at all.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
The world was changing, felt like democracy was winning. It felt like our ideas were actually, you know, sort of becoming, you know, helping people all over the world. And how could you not want to do something with that, be a part of that. So that's what inspired me to want to understand different people everywhere and try to do something with that. 15 years old, you go to Tulane. 15 years old.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
They lost a fair number of young progressives because they were seen as too close. Free Palestine community.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
That hurt them, right? Of course. So, yeah, I mean, do I think that it matters that Elon threw $250 million and actually targeted it well in seven swing states? Yeah, I think that matters. Do I think RFK helped with people that might otherwise not have shown up? Yeah, I think that matters. All those things matter. But you're saying without them, he would have still won.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I think I still would have expected very close race, but I thought Trump was going to win this race.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I'm saying DeSantis in 2024... Wouldn't have won. ...would have had a really good shot.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
He would have lost. He probably would have lost. I think the anti-incumbent sentiment is overwhelming.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
We don't know what DeSantis would have governed.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I think he would have probably had a better shot, right? In the same way that Biden staying in is like a complete disaster because he clearly is not capable of running the country for four years, right? It's just not possible. So, again, I hear you. Yeah. But... I think it's important. Americans need to look outside the US more than they do. There are a lot of democracies out there.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
They're facing a lot of the same problems. We talk about trade. We talk about migration. We talk about the media space. This is not, you talked to, you asked about Facebook and social media. And you asked me about Millet. You could have asked about Bukele and El Salvador. All these leaders.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So you're willing to talk with me about all of these grassroots factors that are causing things all over the world. But then when we talk about the impact that has on an election after a unique, extraordinary, global time of crisis, global time of crisis, and it turns out that that leads to overwhelming pushback against people in power.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
It was not my fault. It's not like I said I want to go to Tulane at 15.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
One, you lie about your age. Right off the bat. Well, girls are not going to date a 15-year-old. And it wasn't like I was going to troll high schools, right? No. So, I mean, I just like pretended I was just 18. I pretended I was normal. And then I joined a frat, and that didn't go so well. What happened? They promised they weren't going to haze, and they lied.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
But the Democrats in opposition also wouldn't have been leaning into the crazy populists, the crazy progressive stuff on identity politics to the degree that they were when they have power in the White House.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Okay, fair. Absolutely.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Again, I think that inflation in the United States... absolutely would have been at the same rough levels if we had DeSantis for the last four years. Tell me why. In what way? Because the reason for inflation in the US and globally is because you had these incredible, first of all, because you needed to throw a lot of money in the teeth of the pandemic. That had to happen.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And secondly, because you shut down global supply chain. And when it reopened, it was reopening at different times in different places. Remember, China had zero COVID for way too long. Europe was opening it sometimes and wasn't. U.S. different times as well. The ships aren't in the right places. You're paying massively more to get. All of that is happening. That's an enormously important issue.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Fine. That's a pocketbook issue. People don't they don't care if their wages are going up, if they're paying more for eggs on a regular basis.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So I'm prepared to accept that if you ask me, would DeSantis have been a stronger incumbent in an environment where incumbents are getting crushed everywhere around the world? Would he have had more of a chance? Yeah. Yes. But do I think he would have won? Would I bet on that given that? I would say no.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And I couldn't really handle it, so I quit. But when you're 15 in college, and especially at a party school, the hard thing is not your grades and the classes. The hard thing is trying to find a way to actually be a normal kid. And so here I am by myself for the first time away from family. And trying to learn how to socialize with people, how to just be normal. And that took a lot of effort.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Like all of these things, they resonate because the basis of the argument has some truth in it. So if you ask me, is there a deep state in the sense that there are people at the World Economic Forum or the Council of Foreign Relations or the Bilderberg Group, all of which I have attended,
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
that have their hands on the levers of power and are strategically figuring out, here is how we're going to manipulate and stay in power. No, these organizations have virtually no power in and of themselves, and they serve as networking organizations to help people get deals done. Do you think Klaus Schwab is a good guy? I didn't say that. I said that wasn't the question you asked.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Klaus Schwab is someone I know and have known for a long time. He is not someone that I would say is a warm, fuzzy, sort of classical, liberal, care about everybody in the world. The fact is that I wrote a book, not my latest one, but two books ago, called us versus them the failure of globalism. I think globalism has utterly failed in the United States and around the world.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
A large number of incredibly wealthy people that have bought access to power have used that to advance their own interests against the interests of people that are now saying we're not going to tolerate that anymore. I think that's an incredible, incredible injustice. So I'm not a globalist.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I believe in globalization because in the last 50 years, we've managed to reduce poverty and increase a global middle class that can actually live longer. We've managed to like educate women. We've managed to urbanize. We've managed to reduce infant poverty. We educate people. Those are all great things. Globalization is wonderful.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I love the fact that people and goods and services and ideas move faster and faster around the world. And the people like you and I, our families can get the hell out of where we were and make something of ourselves. I believe in all of that.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
But globalism, the idea that if you can get your hands on power, you can promote these things and not care about the people in your own country, I don't accept that at all, at all. But my point is, because you asked me about the deep state, you didn't ask me about, like, is Klaus Schwab a good guy? The deep state is true,
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Insofar as there are a class, a tiny class of people that don't care whether it's Democrats or Republicans, they will find a way to ensure that they are close to power and that they are using that to get outcomes that benefit them and not outcomes that are free and fair competition in a well-regulated free market. And who gets screwed? The average American gets screwed.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So is that a deep state? I would argue that that is a component of, that's a kleptocratic oligarchical system. It's a little bit like Berezovsky in the early go-go Russian days. Was Berezovsky and Yeltsin, were they good for the average Russian citizen after the Soviet Union collapsed? No, it was a disaster for them. They managed to take the wealth of the country and put it in their own pockets.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Tear apart my argument. Trump sees that he has a tool and he scattershot, uses it everywhere. I think that is one of the most irresponsible decisions by a president I have ever seen in my life. Honestly. And why is he doing it? Because he wants to show he can?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I mean, it was extraordinary that Biden still was running for president at that point. It was extraordinary. Obviously, there were people around him that were doing everything possible to ensure that the actual state of his health on a day-to-day basis was obscured from the rest of the world. I completely, I accept that.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Well, I mean, I think about... More than they would like a Trump? More than they would like a Trump. It's interesting. Trump is more transactional and more pay for play. So if you're someone like Jeff Yass, he will flip on TikTok because you've given money to his campaign. So, I mean, in a way that I think DeSantis would be less overtly transactional. I think that's a fair point you make.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
But I mean, if I think about how comfortable an awful lot of big donors are with all of these people, I mean, it is true that more billionaires, a larger number of billionaires gave money to Harris than gave money to Trump. That's certainly true. But if you ask me how the American system feels broken, it's not because we're becoming a dictatorship.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Yeah. Mom's Armenian. My dad was German, died when I was four.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
It's because special interests with a lot of money ensure that they pay for almost every congressional race, House and Senate, Democrat and Republican, and the presidential race. And it's $3 billion, and it takes 24 months, and it's a subversion of democracy. And the idea that that's true only of one party, not the other, is insane. It's insane.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So we all know that, I mean, like no matter who comes in, you know, the people that are doing really, really well in the United States keep on keeping on.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I certainly saw how much more Harris was able to raise in this last cycle than Trump did. But if you look at Senate races for Democrats and Republicans across the board, I think those numbers are pretty comparable. And those are big races. I'm not... But when you when you I'm talking.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So, I mean, I'm just saying DeSantis raised a lot of money.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Yeah. Yeah. They met. My dad was an enlisted man in the army, and my mom was in high school. met on Revere Beach, and she fell in love, quit high school, eloped with him because he was being sent out to Ecuador to be based, and she was an officer's wife. And so that was the background.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Again, I would compare the United States with any other advanced industrial democracy. You look at the Republicans, you look at the Democrats, and you would say, wow, the United States is so out of whack compared to every other country. You have an election in Canada, and you're talking about raising tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Germany, I have friends that are running in Germany right now. These are tiny, tiny races. And you're not able to self-fund in the way you can in the United States. Okay, so check this out.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So when he died, she went back to Boston, Chelsea, where her family was, and her life came crashing down, and I was her life, and then my brother later. Is that mom and dad there?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Look, I think that... The country is so much more divided. There are so many fewer votes that are up for grabs today than there were 50 years ago in the United States. I mean, at the end of the day, you're talking about a very small number of people in a very small number of districts. And otherwise, people are reliably red and they're reliably blue.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
It's very hard to flip most of those people, most of those places. There are a lot more independents in the United States now than there were before. But those independents reliably lean with a party or another, even if they're not a part of that party. That's fair, yeah.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So I think that what we are talking about right now is a country that has most of its population that has decided that they are on Team A or Team B, and the other team is an enemy. And that's a serious problem. Now, it was at least really good in 2024 that nobody thought the election was rigged. It was good that everyone accepts that Trump is actually the president.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
That's very different from the average American.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
What happened to him? Cancer. That's young.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
As we were two or three years ago. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I don't see that in the United States now. I don't see that around the world right now. I think that Trump's impulses, of course, are still very much about finding people that are the enemy and I'm going to win and we're going to win together and we're going to go after these people.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I think that Elon does the same thing and not just domestically, but also around the world. I think it works. It produces algorithmically. You know, you get clicks on the basis of much stronger emotions than you do long form nuance and engaging in civil society. And a lot of Americans are hurting.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
A lot of average Americans, a lot of young men in the United States don't feel like they're doing well, don't feel like people are taking care of them, and they're angry at stuff. And what can you do? You go after. I mean, talk about Guantanamo, and I'm going to set up a camp for 30,000 people. Does he need to do that? No. Can the cruelty be the point in going after folks?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Look at those David Stockman glasses. Look at the velour sweater.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Yeah, it helps because they want to say, you're responsible for my pain, and I'm going to do something about that. So I don't... I think that all of these things play because there's a lot of hurt. There's a lot of feeling of isolation. There's a lot of Americans that are spending much less time with other Americans and instead are being intermediated through their phones.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And I think that's a problem. And I think that MAGA has managed to create something that people can aspire and connect to when the family's broken down and when the church has broken down and when public schools aren't doing so well. Our economy is doing fantastically well at the macro level, but the average American, I think, is still feeling like they're hurting.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I didn't know you were going to do this to me. I didn't know you were going to do this to me. That's cool. That is cool. I haven't seen that photo in years.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So I have a hard time seeing America not being as divided until we start fixing those issues. Those are long-term structural issues. I don't think we're getting closer on that. I also worry that we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater when the United States, I've never seen a time, I mean, you've been talking a lot about the US over the last 15, 20 minutes.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I spend most of my time talking outside the US about what's happening in the rest of the world. The United Nations, the World Health Organization, all of these organizations, we created them. The United States after World War II, the World Bank, the IMF, NATO. We created them with our values and our allies because we recognize that long term we have a democracy. Our system is messy.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
You go from one president to a different, different types of ideas and policies. But that if we could create institutions where, yes, we'd be responsible and we do more, maybe in some cases in our fair share, we'd pay more, we'd be more engaged, we'd show leadership. But long term, we would benefit from that.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
But if the average American doesn't believe that they benefit from that, they're going to say, screw you. We shouldn't support that anymore. We don't like the UN. We don't like the WHO. We don't like any of these organizations because you're not taking care of us.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I do. Why? Well, I mean, there are different reasons. But the main reason they don't like them is because they feel like the United States is getting rolled by a whole bunch of countries that aren't taking care of themselves and want the Americans to pay for it.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I did the full four years, but I traveled everywhere. I mean, I went to the Soviet Union a couple times. I went to Japan. I did my junior year abroad. I mean, I went from nowhere, growing up in Chelsea, Massachusetts, to traveling everywhere because there were all these opportunities.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And this is an important thing is that in four years time, Trump is not president anymore. So, I mean, as much as he can impose all sorts of ideas and will that a lot of people are going to say, I like this. The reality is the law of the jungle driven by Trump with all of these things saying you do it my way or you're in serious trouble.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
When that stops and you have a different leader, Republican or Democrat, don't care, but they're not going to have that ability. They're not. He's a unique figure in that regard. They're not going to have that. They're not. But then you don't have the same institutional heft to ensure that people otherwise behave that were aligned with the Americans. You're going to lose something. Right.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
That's important.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I like asking. I don't like breaking.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Yeah, probably a solid half are direct analysts in some fashion. And then you've got, you know, people, you've got tech people and you've got HR people.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Sure, of course. Okay, perfect. It's a company. It's not the government. Brother, the part that... Do I think the government is inefficient? Yes, I do. Do I think that we should break everything and ask questions later? No, I want us to ask questions first and then break. That's the difference. Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And they're super, super deep underground. They were meant to be bomb shelters. All of this incredible marble artistry, grandiose. I mean, you know, communism. And it was meant to show the average Soviet citizen that this is Soviet power. It's accessible to everyone. But my first experience was very different from that. It's a funny story.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So this was the Hotel Cosmos, which was, excuse me, the Hotel Rosia. I was at the Cosmos as well, the Hotel Rosia. And it was in Moscow. It was right off Red Square. And at the time, it was the largest hotel in the world. It was where the Olympic athletes, the Americans, if Carter hadn't boycotted, would have been staying there. And so here I am, that's the hotel, the Hotel Rocio.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
You see the Kremlin in the background there on the left, and there's the river. So anyway, there I go. And there's 10 of us, 14 of us on the trip, all students from Tulane and our professor. We're two to each room, these little single beds. And, you know, you're trundling with your suitcase up the stairs, down these long hallways. And it was dark. And I was jet lagged.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Thank you. Thank you. And so the idea – no, the people that run the world are the people that are worth hundreds of billions of dollars, that are directly in meetings with world leaders where they can actually take real advantage of those meetings because they can put cash into play. Like you and I both know the currency of power in the world is about do you have capital, and the WEF does not.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I'd never been jet lagged in my life before. I'm zonked out of my skull. I have no idea where I am. And I go to put the light on in the room because it's dark. So it's a single bed. And there's a clip-on lamp there. that is clipped to the little headboard on the back of my bed, behind the pillow. And so I go to try to turn the knob on the lamp. There's no knob.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
They don't. They're convener.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
They all have industry groups that are really, really relevant for them. And if you want to talk about where they're applying and making sure that they're aligning their capital, it's in their industry groups. It's not in the WEF with everybody else. In the WEF, they're meeting with everyone so they can get business done. It is transactional. It is not strategic.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Strategic are where they put money into their packs. They put money into their industry groups and figure out what are the things that move the needle for them so that they have more access to the kind of regulations they want, the kind of taxes they want. That's where that power is being levered. No question.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
If I look at the people that are driving AI in the world today and what they say about the future, and so the idea that, like, you know... You're going to have digital sovereignty and people are going to upload into the Internet.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
He's in charge of a conference.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Guy's got influence. Look, I mean, if we were to try to find individual quotes that make political leaders that you and I know look batshit crazy and only talk about those things, we could do that. We choose not to. Why it is that we've decided that we're going to key in on this one quote?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Yes, of course, on the Axis Hollywood.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
It turns out that it's on the wire behind the headboard. So I break rule number one in the former Soviet Union, which is never put your hand someplace you can't see. I reached behind the headboard. And as I go to turn on the light, it turned out that the plastic casing had been broken, eaten through. My finger went into the copper wires. I electrocute myself and pass out. Get out of here.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
It's a little bit weird. If you ask me what I think that actually reflects, it reflects a view of a technologically driven, some would say utopian, many more would say dystopian world when human beings are radically different than they are right now. If you ask me if I look at where AI is driving technology,
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
you know, sort of humanity, it's not in a place where most people in the world are going to have a lot of control over productive forces. Labor is getting a lot weaker. Do I think people will be happy about that? No, I don't. I think people, and if they are happy, it's because they're programmed to be happy. I think that everyone says artificial general intelligence is coming.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I think that computers are programming us a lot more quickly than we're programming computers. We are affected much more as consumers and products as we engage on this stuff. I think that if you put it in that context, I think you would find that what he said is much more aligned with a lot of your most advanced tech thinkers
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
in the world today, and those are places that we should be pushing back against.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I don't know. I didn't see anything particularly exciting, honestly. You?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
The thing about me, you said you've followed me for a while. I mean, look, I may be a kid from Chelsea. I'm authentic. I will tell you what I think.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So, I mean, you know, some places you and I clearly agree. Some places you and I have less, let's put it this way, I have less knowledge about a lot of the domestic stuff that you're talking about. I have a lot more knowledge on the international stuff. So if we don't agree, I think it's mostly because...
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
What's your concern with tariffs? Well, first of all, the U.S., you look at the place that tariffs have caused the biggest conversations over the last 10 years. It's been China. And Biden and Trump's policies on China have been virtually identical on this issue. I mean, Biden didn't take any of those tariffs off. Sure. He actually added export controls.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
There is a move towards a decoupling of the global economy from the U.S. and China that had very integrated supply chains to increasingly less integrated supply chains. Is that good, bad, or indifferent? There are some ways where it's good because you have more control over, you know, you aren't going to be as vulnerable to political intervention stopping you from having stuff.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
We're finally starting to move some of our semiconductors away from Taiwan. That was a huge mistake the Americans made over the past 30 years in the same way that the Germans made a huge mistake allowing their energy to come from Russia. And by the way, some of the Europeans are now talking about, let's do that again. That would be another huge mistake if they were to do it.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So I believe that there is a utility for national security purposes in using the strength of US economic policy, including tariffs, to help defend the interests of Americans and its allies. I also think that as the most powerful country in the world, you can use tariffs as a stick that can force countries to negotiate with you in ways that they might not otherwise.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So I look at the Mexico conversation right now. and Trump willing to credibly say... You may want to lift it up and put it back up. Oh, thank you. There you go. Trump credibly saying, we're going to hit you hard, will make them take fentanyl more seriously, will make them take border security in the South more seriously.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Swear to God. 16 years old. 16 years old. My first 10 minutes. in like this hotel in Moscow and I passed out on the bed. And it just, you realize suddenly that, okay, this is not like, in the United States, you eat an apple pie and it says caution and it's really hot. There are no fucking caution signs in the former Soviet Union, okay? So it was just a real come to Jesus moment.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
He will get more from them because he is willing to use sticks for the United States, and those sticks are less dangerous if they are terrorists. You're okay with that? Yeah, I'm okay with that. I recognize that tariffs also have costs. We are in a very low tariff environment right now in the world. I think the average tariff on the average good globally is something like 3%.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
It's not a big amount of money. So, I mean, the fact is that moving a little bit on tariffs, if it gets you some outcomes that you want, is not going to have a massive impact.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
On everybody? Everybody. Well, there you would have a significant amount of near-term inflation, right? I mean, that would definitely happen. So, okay, so are you following... And you'd also have a significant impact on the stock market, which would come down, and corporates would take a hit that have exposure to all those markets, and so they'd have to pay costs as a basis of that.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Those are the two major things.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Okay. There are costs to doing that because you're no longer getting that revenue. For sure. I totally get it. I'd really like to not see the IRS get defunded because one of the best ways that you ensure that you continue to make revenue is to make sure that people that owe taxes actually pay them and are audited. So I do think that's important.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
China today, they have advanced technologies.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And they will come back and hit you with tariffs as well, and that's going to be a cost on you and all the same thing.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I don't know how it goes for people that hear the message. But in terms of how they experience the outcomes, I can tell you that people, when they get more money in their income or their taxes go down, psychologically pocket that. That's theirs. They earned it. It's their due. When inflation goes up, they're angry about that. That's not okay. And it doesn't balance off.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So inflation has a significantly greater impact psychologically on people because they're paying that. Now, to be fair, Trump is clearly very concerned about one area of inflation, which he should be, which is oil. And the reason for that is because guys in the United States that are going and filling up their car actually see the price of oil, price of gas every week, and they see it by itself.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And so they're very sensitive to that. So that helps. And if you bring down the cost of oil and let's say, you know, so do you get oil down to 60 bucks a barrel, which I think is plausible this year. and Trump is leaning into the Saudis to try to get them to pump more, and Trump is leaning into the regs to try to get sort of U.S.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
drillers to do more, then you might be willing to take more inflation in other aspects, even though he'll get beaten up by the Democrats. And at the end of the day, that might be seen as a wash by the American people. So you might have more flexibility on tariffs. Now, there are some tariffs that he is talking about putting on that I think are a mistake.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
of, okay, Ian, you're going to need to actually be a little more aware of your surroundings here. You're going to have to pay attention.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So for example, Mexico, you want to hit the Mexicans really hard right now. They have a government that is, they have a super majority. They can make constitutional changes. The leader's very popular. She is oriented to do everything possible to get to a better deal. Trump will be seen as a winner. That's a smart place to use your strength. Canada, huge mistake. Why?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Because Canada is heading into an election cycle. And everyone in Canada has become really angry about what Trump is saying. And as a consequence, both the liberals and the conservatives have to outplay each other in who's going to be tougher to respond to Trump. So he should have waited until after the elections if he wanted to hit the Canadians with tariffs, when the U.S.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
would have a lot more leverage and when the politics wouldn't be at play. because instead, he's gonna either have to back down, which makes him look weak, or he has to keep going, and the Canadians have to get into a vicious cycle, and it's gonna cost us a lot more, and that we will see.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So I absolutely believe that tariffs are an important, even an indispensable tool for the United States in foreign policy, but you want to use them strategically. You wanna use them in a more sort of actual, use judgment in how and when you apply them. Trump doesn't do that.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Trump sees that he has a tool and he scattershot, uses it everywhere at the same time and see how it goes, see how it sticks. And you break things that way. So it's not that he's wrong.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
His political instincts have always been incredibly sharp, but his willingness to actually think through what the implications of some of those knee jerk statements are and knee jerk policies are, even as the strongest guy out there, even as a guy who's consolidated power when so many of his allies are weaker, when the American economy is stronger, when the U.S.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
has a better technological position, when our military is stronger, he can still make big mistakes. And so I'd rather see him as my president, as your president, I'd rather see him minimize those mistakes.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I'm saying like, what an incredible mind blowing, all of these different places. I thought that communists were all the same. I thought like the Soviet Union, they were all gonna be these mindless automatons that hated us. Turned out, I mean, you had Armenians and you had Georgians and Azeris and Russians and Ukrainians, and they had different parts of the Soviet Union and they acted differently.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Well, you've got to keep in mind that compared with the periods of time when tariffs were a lot higher, you now have global supply chains that are completely integrated. They weren't before. I mean, you look at U.S.-Mexico, and you'll have cars with components going back and forth sometimes 30, 40 times with completely integrated U.S.-Mexico supply chain before it actually gets bought by somebody.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
you suddenly throw a 25% tariff across the board between US and Mexico and Mexico hits you back with that. Then suddenly, like you're literally breaking that supply chain in ways that makes absolutely no sense given how corporations and jobs on both sides of the border have been set up for decades.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So you don't want to suddenly break that because that's going to cost your corporations and the workers in those corporations an awful lot. So you can't do that. You have to be careful at being more incremental.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And this is what Scott Besant is saying, right, is that he understands the desire to move towards a higher tariff environment, but he wants to do it incrementally, and he wants to be squeezing, using that power to get outcomes that are more beneficial for the United States. I accept the fact that there has been free-riding
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
in a low tariff environment by a whole bunch of countries that are not necessarily providing for the public good globally what they should be. China today is a middle income country. They're not a low income country. They have advanced technologies. They're ahead of us. in post-carbon energy. This is a country that can afford to actually change around their trade relationship with us.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
They can afford to uphold intellectual property and stop ripping us off. And also, a lot of American companies aren't as interested in being in China because their economy is doing so badly right now. So the Americans have more leverage in that relationship today and should use it. Absolutely. But you've got to recognize that this is not 1925.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So who benefited from globalization, right? There are two groups of people that benefited, that really benefited from globalization. It's the top 10%.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
globally and particularly the top one and top 0.0001 right and then the global middle class that really benefited from globalization and the people that didn't benefit from globalization were wealthy people from a global perspective but in reality middle and working classes in the united states and europe and canada and japan and south korea those are the people that didn't benefit and the reason they didn't benefit is because all of the benefits that came to the wealthy were
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
were not reinvested into those countries in ways that would improve education, that would improve healthcare, that would improve social cohesion. They didn't do that. And that's why globalism has failed because you can't be winner take all in a more kleptocratic system and forget about your own fellow countrymen because they will say, screw you. And that's why you had Brexit.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
That's why you have all these Euroskeptic movements too. This isn't just the United States. It's not like the Americans are the ones that have uniquely gotten it wrong and everybody else is on the right side of this. This is a global phenomenon.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Their culture was different. Their languages were different. I mean, and some of it I had some personal and cultural connection with. It was nothing like what I heard in the newspapers, you know, what I read in the Boston Herald, you know, when I was growing up as a kid. It was nothing like that. It was so much more rich. When's the last time you went back to Russia?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
The brain. I mean, like, he is a very smart guy. Yeah, but that's the premise of... So the fact that if someone uses your ideas and informs your ideas and inform by him, you're going to let your company be run by that person?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I can see that, by the way. If you go back to his book, Sapiens, I can see why Klaus would have found a lot of those ideas very attractive.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Right. That's a good question. Companies did. American companies did. Did the average American? No. No. Look at middle class income in the United States since China's opened. Flat. Flat. How have Americans, how have the average Americans, how's the average Trump voter saying that they're benefiting from China getting open? No.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Oh, it would have been before the pandemic, but not much before.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Look, I mean, it's so interesting because you've got inside MAGA right now. Right. You have a whole bunch of people that are not saying I want libertarianism. They're not saying, I want tiny government. They're saying, I actually want government to intervene more on my behalf. I want the special interests to get hurt, and I want more to stay in the United States.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And I want the government to do that. And yeah, I want tariffs. Why do I want tariffs? Because I would much rather have a good job that pays me money.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Government to tariff. government to ensure industrial policy, government to force people to invest in the United States. They want government to do that. They don't want the free market globally. Yes. Look, that's not everyone in MAGA. That's not what Elon Musk wants.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
But there is a core basis that is saying we allowing free markets around the world and allowing, you know, sort of open, easy capital to move. No, we want government intervention.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I think that Trump is absolutely prepared to use American power to get outcomes that he wants. Trump, in my view, is not a libertarian, and Trump is certainly not just a free market guy. I mean, he's very transactional and, and Lord knows, I mean, he's in the way he's built his own business. He's built it all over the world and a whole bunch of the MAGA hats and whatnot have been made in China.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Oh, I mean, first of all, just how much more money has come into these places, right? I mean, a lot of these countries are, you know, now... fully integrated into a global economy. And so you've got, you know, that's another funny thing.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And, you know, all of his product, he's, he's not a president has no problem with globalization. He's benefited from it. He's had a lot of immigrants from all over the world that are working for, you know, sort of his places. Not, not all. He even talked about he had H1B visa.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So, I mean, where is Trump on the, you know, what I would call deep MAGA versus dark MAGA, right? I mean, dark MAGA is the globalist wing and deep MAGA is the populist, like, you know, industrial policy wing. I think Trump's both. Trump's both. And he has the ability to decide on any of these issues where he wants to play. Do you think he's both or he knows how to dance with both?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I think he actually is both. How do you become both? Well, I mean, look, Trump used to be a Democrat. Now he's a Republican, right? I mean, because why? He sees that that was where the opportunities were for him to actually win as president, for him to capture a much bigger piece of like the vibes or the zeitgeist of the American people.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I don't think that he is consistent ideologically with one side of this argument or the other. I mean, he was very close with Robert Lighthizer last time around. And now you've got his former chief of staff who's running USTR. Lighthizer grew up in Ohio, working class like me in Chelsea, Mass., and feels like I would much rather.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
people not have two or three televisions, but know that they're going to have a good opportunity for themselves and their family going forward. And if that means, you know, that we're going to break some eggs, that's okay. I think that resonates with Trump, frankly.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Not my first trip to the Soviet Union, my second, also as a student, undergraduate student a couple years later, and I knew from my first trip there that they were super interested in in all of these American consumer goods and technology that they had no access to.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
That's right, Meng. And that was a real problem for the Canadians. But at the end of the day, he's a big national security problem. So I think it is a mistake to take a read on Trump and say this guy is only tariff man. This guy also is prepared to cut a deal with anybody. Right. I mean, one of the biggest things the mainstream media has gotten wrong about Trump is they say he's in Putin's pocket.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
No, he's not. But he's willing to talk to Putin in a way that Biden was not. I mean, when the guy that is telling the Europeans they need to spend more on defense, you think Putin wants that? It's exactly the opposite of what Putin wants. Are you happy with him as your president or Biden? They're very, very different people. That's not what I'm asking. I know. Am I happier?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I make more money with Trump. My taxes are lower. Far more people use our services. Are you safer? Am I safer with Trump? Trump wants to end wars. On the other hand, the likelihood that Trump can get some things, I think that the level of tail risks, upside and downside on Trump, are far greater than they were under Biden.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So the potential that you get some really big wins that were not conceivable under Biden, more likely under Trump. The potential that some really big things blow up under Trump, more likely than under Biden. Geopolitically.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
People laughing in the background here. Those are the two people.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I mean, so these were the days where you'd bring a pair of Levi's blue jeans and they'd want to trade because they couldn't get them themselves. They'd want like a ballpoint pen. They couldn't get them. They wanted like, you know, anything that was like decent, basic American branded stuff. So I went to the, remember the sharper image? Of course. Yeah.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I can.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
You know, I really worry. You can't say it, can you? I can't. I can't say it because I... Even though you know it's right. I don't know it's right. I think that there are certain things that Trump has done. Look, we have a ceasefire in Gaza now. That would not have happened under Kamala Harris. I completely accept that. And he was the one that pushed the Israelis.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And he was the one that, through Qatar, pushed Hamas. That got done. I think it is more likely that we will get a ceasefire on Russia-Ukraine under Trump than we would have under Kamala. I think that's true. At the same time, as someone who, you asked me right at the beginning, what got me into what I do?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And it was standing up for rule of law, ideals, what America stands for, someone who truly understands that America leads by example, by example. And I find that Trump as a human being does not lead by example. Biden and Kamala do. Um, I, I, neither of them were the people that I would have voted for. Ideally, your only choice is these three. I understand.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Um, and if you ask me, um, where you have, um, an ability to get people around the world to say the United States is a system that I, a political system that I trust, um, that I stand with, that I know that I can count on reliably from one administration to the next, I think that the level of longer-term strategic damage which Trump is doing to alliances that matter to the U.S.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I'll give you an example. I just gave Trump plaudits on Gaza and on Russia-Ukraine. I happen to believe, this is a place that I disagree fundamentally with Trump, I believe in a world that's becoming more dangerous and more fragmented that a strong, cohesive Europe is very valuable for the United States. I believe that.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I believe that Europe as a supranational institution supports rule of law, supports transparency, supports human rights, supports all of the things that we as Americans have stood and put our hand on our hearts since we were kids. They've lost their minds a little bit. Yes. We have two in the United States in different ways. Have you been to UK to see what UK did?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
So, I mean, as a kid, I remember it was right off of Faneuil Hall in Boston and that was a super fancy shop. You couldn't buy anything from there, but it's cool. You'd like, right. So I went there, I told him I was going to the Soviet Union. I said, would you give me like a hundred of your catalogs so that when I go and meet these kids, I can show them the stuff that Americans have.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
By the way, UK is not in Europe right now.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Germany, go to different... I think that if the UK were still in Europe, they'd be in much better shape right now. Absolutely. And by the way, over 70% of Brits now agree. They recognize this was a huge mistake. So the fact that Trump...
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
really believes that Europe should go their separate way and fragment, and he wants to support all of these, you know, irredentist and euroskeptic movements, I think is bad for, it's penny wise and pound foolish, quite to use the pun. Long-term, it's a problem. Leading by example.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
If Narendra Modi in India, prime minister of India, if he were to get on phone calls and meetings with Gautam Adani, the most powerful oligarch in India, and that Adani was suddenly like part of those conversations and driving policy, even though he has no official position, we'd say that was a banana republic.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I really have a problem with the fact that Elon is playing that role right now with Trump.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I do. Well, one, because Trump is really good at managing relations with people that have a lot more money than him and are very useful to him. It's true with Steve Schwartzman. It's true with Mohammed bin Salman in Saudi Arabia. And I think Elon is even more useful. And I also think that Elon is very good at keeping his mouth shut when he needs to, like with China.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
He's never said anything bad about Xi Jinping. He's had lots of reasons to. His business has had its challenges. He's more than happy to go after the SEC. He's more than happy to go after the British prime minister. He's more than happy to go after the German chancellor because they're not going to hurt him. But the Chinese, they can hurt him. So he's very careful.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
He's very pro-communist party, says great things about them. You know, all the sort of things that Zuckerberg says to Trump in the last few weeks. Trump is far more important to Elon now. than Xi Jinping is, not even close. So I think that the ability of these two men to ensure that they continue to keep that relationship very, very strong is extremely high.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And everyone I know that really asks the question about, oh, they're not gonna last, those are people that want them not to last. Well, that's not analysis, that's sales. I mean, if you're just telling me what you want, it's not a useful judgment on the conversation. So I have a problem with that.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
that we could just buy, which I thought would blow their mind, right? I mean, like, you know, sort of capitalism, like behind the iron curtain. And so I get there. I remember one of the things that completely blew their mind. This would have been in 88, 89. This is the second time you went. Second time I went as a student. And there was a cordless phone, right? So a home cordless phone.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
No, that wasn't the only thing I said. What else did you say? I did. I talked about Europe. I talked about rule of law. Look, I... Rule of law?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Sharper Image US. Sharper Image US. It was, it floated and it was waterproof. And it was so you could use it in your swimming pool. Now, imagine the orders of complete befuddlement that the average former Soviet would have with that concept. I mean, one, phones have wires. So how is it possible that you can be talking into this device that isn't physically connected?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Thank you. Thank you.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Secondly, what do you mean it floats? What are you talking about a swimming pool? Like what, you bring it with you to the common swimming pool? No. Your own swimming pool that a lot of my aunt had, who was like perfectly middle class, had a swimming pool in her backyard. You could have used it there on your floaty. Right.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
And that's all of that was completely inconceivable for an 18 year old kid in the Soviet Union. So that was kind of interesting. Yeah.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Was it Bukele?
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I completely understand why the average American would hear that. It would resonate with them. I get it. I will tell you that if you are in the top 1%, the 0.1%, or if you're in the government and aligned with them, And you have benefited from exploiting resources all over the world.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
You've benefited from us pumping carbon into the atmosphere when so many of these countries have not had a chance to globalize. And now they're saying, what's going to happen to us? Whether, you know, your... a tiny little country in Southeast Asia or Sub-Saharan Africa, the idea that the Americans don't owe anything to anybody else in the rest of the world is not something that I sit well with.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
I'm just telling you. I'm telling you, man. And I think that this is a conversation that I want to see more Americans actually have. It's not just long form, but it's like looking at it from two completely different reasonable perspectives.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
Yeah.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
was this incredible moment where the United States actually won. and one without a bullet being fired, one not because our economy was better, though it was, not because our military was stronger, though it was, but because all of these people behind the Iron Curtain saw the way Americans and our allies lived and said, we don't want to tolerate the loss of these liberties.
PBD Podcast
“Trump Would’ve Won Without Musk” - Ian Bremmer DEFENDS Davos, Deep State & Global Elite Agendas | PBD Podcast | Ep. 542
We want to have freedoms. We want to have free speech. We want to have a free market. We want to live like these people. And so our political system, our civil society was, you know, was leading by example.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
Longer term, there are some winners and China long-term will also benefit because the United States will have given up so much reputational capital and China will be able to take advantage of that, particularly in the global South, but also to a degree in Asia, the Japanese, the South Koreans, to a degree in Europe, but in the near term, China gets hit really badly.
Pivot
Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro
In the near term, Mexico and Canada get hit really badly. In the near term, the United States is the comparative winner, and I expect that to be reflected in the markets.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
For example, you're now going to see, and for Latin America, you're seeing those countries, regions work more quickly to ensure that they get the EU-Mercosur trade deal in place immediately. For India, moving more closely, fast-tracking trade engagement with the EU and with the UK and with Australia. and with New Zealand and a bunch of other countries around the world.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
You know, for Canada, it is how can we work more closely with the Europeans as fast as possible and coordinate more with them. For the Chinese, first and foremost, it's Southeast Asia. You see, Xi Jinping just went to Vietnam, 45 new trade agreements. Spending all week in Southeast Asia, sort of making nice
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
At the margins and more over time so that they can't be hit as badly by a capricious overnight decision that can change again tomorrow by President Trump and his top advisors. On the other hand, Chuck.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
There is a longer term concern that as the United States pulls away from its own globalization order with American standards and values and institutions, the second largest economy in the world will become dominant in much of that architecture. So the US leaves the World Health Organization behind. China becomes dominant.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
The US pulls out of the Paris Climate Accord, who's got all of the transition energy at scale, solar power, batteries, supply chain, critical minerals, China. So, you know, going forward at the COP summits every year to advance how we're going to respond to climate change and a post-carbon energy environment, China becomes the dominant actor. The United States is not. So,
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
I do think that law and if the US were to pull out of the United Nations and decide not to pay, then Chinese would become the dominant country influencing the UN, too. So longer term, I think there are real opportunities structurally for China that other countries don't have. Near term, it's just like cut deals as fast as possible with the Americans, because they can hurt you.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Und ich denke, dass der Staatssekretär Besant, wenn er sagt, dass all diese Länder mich anrufen, um Ziele zu schließen, ist er nicht lügen über das. Das ist wahr, weil ich meine, die USA können viel Schaden machen, wenn man diese Ziele nicht macht. Aber das De-Risking ist, ist ein Hedging-Behörde von jedem Land und Unternehmen weltweit. Reduzieren Sie Ihre Ausführungen an den USA, wie Sie können.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
That would be the good outcome. That would be the stabilizing outcome if on the back of all of this U.S.-driven geopolitical uncertainty and volatility and shock... Let's underline that.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
A decision. I mean, Trump is symptomatic of an awful lot of Americans that increasingly don't support US-driven collective security, US-driven rule of law, US-driven free trade. So it's not like this is new. This has been coming for decades. But Trump's second term absolutely said, I am going to destroy this old order. Everyone is taking advantage of us. That's not going to happen anymore.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
So, I mean, this is what people voted for. He said he was going to do it.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
That's right. The markets didn't believe this.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And they don't always do. So the good news is that this and it's not good news for the United States near term, is that the Europeans do understand that this requires more unity. So they have to, if they don't have Hungary with them, they have to take decisions not on the basis of 27 country unanimity, but redefine what consensus means. They need to play harder ball. They need to spend more.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
They need to get rid of the debt break in Germany. The UK needs to align with what the Europeans are up to. The Italians have to prioritize the EU more than their bridge with the US. All of those things are true. All of those things are happening. But, but...
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Long term, do I believe that the Europeans have what it takes to survive in an environment where they're going to get hit a lot harder, right? I mean, the US economy is much, much stronger than Europe. And, you know, today you look at the average EU citizen, you realize this place is poorer than Mississippi, poorer than the poorest...
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
So the idea that the Europeans with that level of comparative poverty and anger internally are going to spend, they're suddenly going to, you know, 50% more spending on defense, right? with countries, many countries that have no fiscal space, that are very highly indebted in an inflation and interest rate environment that's going to be going up.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And they've got all the illegal migrants that are trying to get in. They've got the Russians, you know, sort of right next to them that the Americans are trying to kind of deal with over their heads. I'm not sure Europe makes it. In this model. Europe does have a more functional political system, a less kleptocratic political system, a more transparent political system than the United States.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Just as Canada, just as Japan. That's true. But unfortunately, the future of the global order does not seem to be more power to the countries that have the best rule of law. The future seems to be that the power is in the hands of the top down. We can determine outcomes on the basis not of rule of law, but on the basis of the people that have power can tell you what to do.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And the Chinese are doing that with the state controlling the economy. And the US is doing that with the private sector and special interests controlling the state. So is it a state capitalist model or is a kleptocratic model? Either way, I think the Europeans are getting squeezed. So long term, I'm not sure this opportunity in Europe is going to be seized by the Europeans.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
That's a tough one. It's a tough one, Chuck. I'm literally torn on this topic because, you know, US policy towards China has been a bipartisan consensus over the last decade. The Chinese were convinced that everyone in the US was trying to contain them no matter what. By the way, I think they're right about that.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Yeah, so under Trump, I mean, that's when you started some of these tariffs. Under Trump, that's when you started hitting the Chinese on Huawei and 5G. Then under Biden, you extend the tariffs, you do more export controls, you hit them on semiconductors, for example. Now, the reaction of that by the Chinese was, okay, we can't rely on TSMC in Taiwan. We need to invest everything in
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
into these new high technologies internally. And, you know, you look at how shocked our friends in Silicon Valley and elsewhere were by the release of DeepSeek, right? That was, you know, Chinese investment into Chinese domestic capacity. Yes, with Western semiconductors, but they're moving as fast as possible to not have that reliance.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Look, I remember, Chuck, at the beginning of the Trump administration, I had a big debate with Steve Bannon, who, as you know, is no intellectual slouch. And he was making this argument that we have to fight
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
the chinese now we have to hit them as hard as possible because we're at a moment that otherwise they're going to become dominant in all these technologies globally and if we don't do it now we're never going to be able to and my response to him was you know in order to make that work even if you agree even if i agree with you that the relationship is
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
has to be zero sum and there's no way to engage with the Chinese long term, you still have to be able to execute on that plan. And that means not just for one term, but over a series of political terms and not just the United States by itself, but combined with allies.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And I go back to that conversation in my mind a lot nowadays, thinking about the Americans just don't have the political system to execute. The reason why rule of law is works better for the United States than it does for China, is because the US is not a multi-generational dictatorship with a single political party.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And so actually we benefit from having some public goods that we constrain a whole bunch of countries around the world to align with, including ourselves. We limit our own power to a degree because we know we can't actually do just hitting countries... Strategisch und konsistente in der Face in the same way over 10, 20, 30 years. Even if you thought that was the best way to run the world.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And I don't. And you know that. But even if you believed it's all the jungle, the fact is, the US doesn't have the best political system to operate with the law of the jungle. And that is something that the Trump team just disagrees.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Yeah, I was with you on that argument strongly 15, 20 years ago. And, you know, I remember all the op-eds that Tom Friedman used to write about how the middle class was becoming restive and look at the demonstrations in China and, you know, look at the Uyghurs.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And of course, I mean, what the Chinese were able to do in Xinjiang is create a technology empowered surveillance society over well over a million people. And they can't do a damn thing. No. And the Chinese government has complete control and they can nudge them into patriotic behavior or else.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And what I fear, I mean, yes, the Chinese government has provided extraordinary economic growth for decades now. And they get credit for that, even though it's not performing as well right now. But they also are the most technologically empowered authoritarian state in the world at scale.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And I worry that in marked contrast to the communications revolution, where everybody had access to an Internet that gave them more information on what was happening in their own country and around the world and made them want liberty.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
You now actually have a surveillance revolution, a data revolution, which is much more top down than bottom up, where the Chinese government, you know, actually has the ability to control behavior. Or else. And it seemed, I mean, when you look at what happened in the pandemic and China's zero COVID policies were horribly repressive, draconian and didn't work.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And yet when individual Chinese engaged in small scale demonstrations and did what they could to try to, you know, sort of obscure their identity, the Chinese police were Ich will... You to be right on this one, Chuck. I really do.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
But I worry that what's happening with technology in China, in the government and in the West, in the private sector, is increasingly promoting illiberal, closed political systems and making them more powerful and stable.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
It's called the CPTPP. This is China's version of it, right? No, no. This was Shinzo Abe. When the Americans pulled out of the TPP, he said, you know what, we need to do this just without the United States. So not as powerful, but same basic deal. High standards, high level of integration. They all signed it. So it exists without the United States. But if the TPP had been done, Ja, klar.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Es hätte den gleichen Niveau von Verzweiflung auf ihn gehabt, wie die US-MCA zwischen den USA, Mexiko und Kanada, was absolut null ist. Also, ich meine, wenn der Präsident auf der Rückseite der amerikanischen Voter entscheidet, dass Freitag tatsächlich etwas ist, das andere Länder benutzen, um die USA voranzutreiben und dass jeder Land historische Niveaus von Tarifen haben muss,
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Even if the Americans are running a surplus. And that's the thing that really cheeses me off, right? The idea that Trump is saying that countries around the world, the US is running trade deficits, and therefore we need to put tariffs in place that will put that trade balance at parity.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And you say, okay, I understand, it's not reciprocal, you want to create reciprocity, but not only did he not actually, you know, look at the trade levels that way, but even with all the countries that the US is running a surplus, in other words, by Trump's own logic, the US must be taking advantage of those countries. Brazil, Australia.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
He puts 10% tariffs, a very historically high level, on those countries too. Yeah. I mean, there's literally no justification for it, aside from the fact that he thinks he can, because the Americans are powerful.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
In the short term, it is don't move supply chain other than US-China, where, you know, you now have with the exception of this near term carve out for electronics. Everything else is a trade embargo level. So those goods aren't moving. I mean, when you've got 145 percent, you're not selling those goods. Right.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
So that is two largest economies in the world have to find other ways to get those goods, either trans shipping through other countries or source them someplace else. That is an immediate move that you have to make right right now.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Anyway, it's going to be really tough. I mean, heck, go on Amazon right now and look at all of the things that are not available. It's kind of shocking. I mean, you can literally anyone watching this right now should be should be doing that as an experiment. And you will see that it turns out that disrupting supply chain really, really matters.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
So that but outside of that, a 10 percent hit is not going to make people reassure to the United States. The US is too expensive for that. So reshoring on the basis of what Trump has already announced and then pulled back on is not happening. That's clearly not the proximate goal.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And that means that you as a company are going to be paying those 10% tariffs and as best you can passing them on to your customers, which is either consumers or its other businesses. And that's what's happening. That's where we are. And of course, everyone is also lobbying, lobbying, lobbying, trying to become an exception and an exemption for Trump. Like Apple just did, like Nvidia just did.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
I mean, those were very well spent dollars for those corporations, right?
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
A good outcome for the United States is one where people believe in the American market long term. I mean, the US is willing to put up with just whatever hurdles Donald Trump puts in front of them. Ja, genau.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
which continues to be state-controlled and is much poorer, much poorer even than Europe, and yes, has a large market, but also has no rule of law, has no independent judiciary, has no ability to redress. If you annoy someone in government, you might as well pack up, right? You're in serious trouble.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
So, I mean, it's not like there are great options and alternatives to the US, which does give the Americans the ability to screw up more, and yet, It can't be screwing up on every front simultaneously. So if Trump was just going to put in 10 percent tariffs on everybody and say, you guys have to pay it because I'm more powerful. He could have gotten away with that very easily.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
That would have been nothing else.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Yeah, yeah, but Natürlich, wenn du das tust und auch auf 100 verschiedenen Fronten gleichzeitig kämpfst und deine amerikanische Kredibilität unterbreitest, auch mit dieser massiven Führung, die wir haben, besonders nach der Pandemie. Der Fakt ist, dass du massive langfristige strukturelle Schäden zu der Position der Vereinigten Staaten verursachen wirst.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Und das ist, wenn du mich direkt am Anfang fragst, wie ist die permanenten Schäden gemacht? But there's so much permanent long-term damage being done, which, I mean, Trump's 78. He cares about himself. You know, he's not particularly strategic. He doesn't have, you know, sort of a, he doesn't spend, his attention span is limited.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
But, you know, for those of us that are going to be here for longer than that, it's a real pain in the ass.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Again, not the first time this has been a problem for Americans and American companies. But it is unprecedented, the level of anti-Americanism we're seeing, even among our closest friends, the Canadians. This is driving an election.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
It's time for self-reflection, it is. Ben Shapiro came out very strongly and said, look, Trump, this is an own goal. You need to patch things up with the Canadians. He refused to do it. So, I mean, you know, this is a big mistake, but it's also a big mistake to be going after students that are, you know, certainly no more radicalized than, you know, 80% of the campuses were in the 60s.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Yeah. Yeah. So why would we want to do that? Why do we want to freeze tourism from Europe or from Canada or from other countries?
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
I'm from Boston originally, so I've heard a lot of the main stories. I've heard the main story too. Basically shut down. I've got friends that are getting ready. I'm going to Boston to see the family for Easter. And this is also Boston Marathon weekend. I was stunned that not only were there lots of hotels available, but the prices weren't crazy. I'm like, what the hell is going on?
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Oh yeah, that's what's happening. People aren't coming.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
They're not coming. And so this is, I mean, you think that this doesn't have an impact on the US at every level, you know, whether it's the workers in these businesses or it's the shareholders and all of these things, they have knock-on implications that are going to hurt us.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
The Mexicans do understand the government. I mean, Claudia Scheinbaum has, I think, her 86% approval ratings right now. Her Morena party has done nothing but win since they've been founded. And that's a constitutional majority, so she can do whatever she wants. And she wants to fix this with the Americans. Right. And that's why. I mean, they've been doing very little on fentanyl.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And now suddenly they're actually engaged in all these raids. Why weren't they doing that over the last five years? Well, because no one was forcing them to. Far fewer people coming across the border illegally. A lot of that is the Americans saying, you know, we're going to send you to El Salvador. But but some of it is the Mexicans actually tightening up on security and on.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
asking and getting more cooperation from the Americans, drone surveillance, overflight, all of this kind of thing. The Mexicans are now cracking down on transshipment from China through Mexico into the United States, which hasn't helped the Mexican economy very much, hasn't led to many jobs, has hurt their own small and medium enterprises on textiles, other low-end manufacture.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
So I think, Chuck, I agree with everything you're saying. But I'm not as worried about that because the Mexicans, unlike so many other countries in the world, have truly no other options but the United States. So on that front, I firmly expect that there will be a deal.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And you've probably seen that even Howard Ludnick, who has been by far the least capable in presenting a coherent American economic perspective to the public, hat gesagt, eigentlich denken wir, die Mexikaner machen hier einen ziemlich guten Job, sie sind ziemlich konstruktiv, wir werden etwas gemacht. Das ist, denke ich, eine akkurate Reflexion der Gespräche, die vorhanden sind.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Yeah, but I mean, again, his intention is not to damage everything. His intention is, I'm the most powerful, so I'm just going to hit all these guys in the face and they're all going to come back and they're going to give me big, beautiful deals and I'm going to look brilliant because Biden was so weak and I'm the guy that stands up.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And what he doesn't realize is that if you don't get those deals done the way you want them zu, because you're fighting with too many people and you don't have that much power. Other countries do have leverage against you.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And if they don't like you, they won't be as nice to you, even if it's against their interest, because they have domestic political constraints, like in Canada, like in Europe, other places. All of those things end up hurting all sorts of players inside the United States, including the Sunbelt, for example, in the US.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
They're going to be more reluctant to try to undermine it. You saw the way that Trump acted with the Israeli Prime Minister in the Oval Office. I mean, it was a much politer affair than Zelensky in the Oval.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Ja, und, und, und, und, und, und, und, und, und,
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
70% seiner Taktiken sind ein Fehler, aber es gibt Zeiten, wo man sagt, ich habe keine aktiven Werte in meinem Kopf, aber seit du mich über Iran fragst, ja, und Iran, er versteht, er fühlt seine Schwierigkeiten, er weiß, dass Iran in einer schrecklichen Position ist, er war auch derjenige, der besagt hat, ich werde mit diesen Angriffen auf die Houthis gehen, du erinnerst dich, Vizepräsident Pence war vor, er sagte, mach es nicht, mach es nicht, Signalgate.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Jetzt, in ein paar Wochen, sind die Houthis für Frieden. Sie sagen, wenn Sie einfach stoppen, werden wir die Schiffe, die durchgehen, stoppen. Okay, wo war das in der Biden-Administration, richtig? Also, ich meine, jetzt verliert Iran all ihre Proxys in der Region. Sie haben sicherlich nicht die militärische Fähigkeit, irgendeinen echten Schaden an Israel zu machen.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And so the Americans are saying, look, you better take a deal. And it's going to be a bigger deal than the Iranian nuclear deal, the JCPOA under Obama. Because otherwise we're going to give Israel all the military capability to really, really destroy you. I see the, remember, the Supreme Leader came out a couple of weeks ago and said, I don't even want to talk to Trump.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Now they're talking directly.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It does sound that way. I mean, he's arrested the guy that was right before he was going to run for president. The one guy that could actually beat him in an open democratic election.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Ja, ich meine, die Medien, die Judiziarie, all the rest. Ich meine, du weißt, es gab einige Instanzen von Ballotstuffing und dem Rest. Aber generell gesagt, es geht mehr darum, was du tust, um zu diesem Punkt zu kommen, als die Wahl.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Sie entscheiden, wer zu fahren wird. Das ist richtig. Und erinnere dich, die letzte Wahl in Iran war eigentlich eine Überraschung. The president was more of a moderate that was not expected.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
This is the China argument, which I am increasingly taking the other side of, which is not good. So, I mean, there's a much broader question here about whether or not, given the nature of advanced technologies, whether our present democratic systems are actually fit for purpose. And I want them to be, but I fear they increasingly are not.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
You know what happened to them a few months ago when their president declared martial law for like a few hours and it was shambolic and it was out of instinct, born out of insecurity.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Yeah, well, keep in mind that he did not have a majority in their parliament. And so they were able to like bedevil and frustrate him on every front. I mean, all sorts of investigations into his wife, into his cabinet members, some of which were clearly trumped up. They couldn't they couldn't pass his budget. Now, I mean, you know, nasty, dirty politics.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
But I mean, certainly no justification for martial law. And he backed down and now he's, you know, been impeached and he's going to end up in jail. And the next election will lead to the opposition party that controls Parliament, also controlling the presidency.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And that will be a much stronger South Korean government because you'll have both houses in a sense, you know, but both checks and balances, if you will, rowing in the same direction.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
So in Brazil, the judiciary is much more politicized. They are willing to go after Bolsonaro for political reasons.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
But I mean, look, the fact is that he was supporting insurrection to overturn a democratic election in Brazil. He will end up suspended, not allowed to run for president next time around. That probably means that he goes for his son, who, I mean, will be popular because, you know, it's a martyr complex.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Is it a majority? We don't know. But it's not, Jair Bolsonaro is not going to be the next president. That's pretty clear. And, you know, in France, this is, you know, this was a case that clearly there was illegality. The justices were not Wenn sie sich entscheiden kann, dass sie runten kann und sie durch 2027, was leicht passieren könnte, sie könnte runten und vielleicht gewinnen.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
So that that is where we're heading right now.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Well, the number one risk we put up was the G0 world wins and and the focus there was not on Trump specifically. The focus was on the United States. Undoing its own global order and no other country or groups of countries capable of standing in and taking that leadership. And I think that that was number one and deserves to be number one.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And people underestimated just how much the old global order was prepared to fragment.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Or your media outlet. No G7, no G20. And I certainly don't want it.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
In many ways, you saw this coming years ago. 10 years ago, 12 years ago. So I think that needed to be number one. It's not like we had a GZERO-related risk for the last five years. This was this year coming. But certainly, if you look at...
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Trade Policy in the US, if you look at what we called Rule of Dawn as opposed to Rule of Law, if you look at the likelihood that US-China was going to be in a much worse place. Yeah. And if anything, we should have been more alarmist than we were. Though again, at the time that we put it out, it was not priced in by the markets.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
There might be. Trump wants one. It's funny, this is the issue, Chuck, where Trump's advisors have been most different publicly from Trump. Right? which is surprising with all of this loyalty.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And Trump was willing to use the stick against Ukraine and effectively, like when he suspended intelligence and defense support, which he put back on, but when he did it, the Ukrainians were like, okay, we cannot mess with this. We will accept his ceasefire with no reservations, no conditions. But he hasn't been willing to personally do that zu Russland.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Und er wird es haben müssen, wenn er einen Sturzfeuer bekommen will. Also schauen wir mal. Ich meine, ich denke, dass ich meine, er hat ein paar Kommentare gemacht, tentative Kommentare über die Verletzung von Patienten, aber dann ist er von ihnen zurückgekehrt.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Yeah, I mean, it was, I found that, especially on the back of Rubio and a number of Republican senators and even Rick Grenell, I mean, a bunch of people were all publicly saying, this is not just tragic, this is unacceptable, we have to stop this, except for the president.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And Witkoff, you know, the special envoy, has been closer to Trump on this, particularly when you saw the Tucker Carlson interview, which he was advised to do.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
I get it. But he's been very effective despite that in his engagements with the Gulf states and Israel on the ground on a bunch of different topics that aren't easy to do.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
But I'm just saying that he has not been equally effective on Russia, Ukraine, where I think he could have been more cautious in places. He's chosen not to do that for reasons that are not completely clear to me.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
It's good to have you in here. You too, Chuck. Absolutely. I'm happy to join the new podcast.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
I think that there are some things that are going to change permanently on the back of all of this. So, no, I don't think you can put Humpty Dumpty together again. That doesn't mean that he's broken the global economy. But what I mean by that is you're going to have you have all sorts of countries around the world now that want to find ways long term to de-risk countries.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Their exposure with our own United States. I mean, over the last 10 years, everyone's been talking about de-risking away from China. Right. Because they were opaque and didn't have rule of law. They were capricious. They promoted their own national champions. And also because US-China relations weren't that good. So how much exposure did you really want long term with China?
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And that has led to a shift in in global supply chain, in capital flows. It helped India really take off, hurt China's economy. You're now going to see a process of de-risking away from the United States. It is harder to do because the U.S. is, of course, a larger economy. And for some countries, the U.S. is utterly critical for things like advanced technology and for national security support.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And of course, the U.S. dollar is still the global reserve currency. But I mean, those decisions. Right. dass die langfristigen Veränderungen der Trajectorie gemacht werden, die nicht zurückkehren werden.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
I don't think it's that, Chuck. I think that if Trump second term was a repetition of Trump first term, I wouldn't be saying that. In other words, if Trump was much more constrained by his own cabinet, By his own Republican Party.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
You knew that better than most. But since we're talking about trade right now, I mean, also Robert Lighthizer, also Steve Mnuchin, also Jared Kushner.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Not there. Not there. Not there. So I think what we're seeing now is a response to the United States suddenly pushing tariffs up to 1930s level and beyond. I think it is the president declaring that he individually has the ability for national security emergency purposes through IEPA
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
to actually change unilaterally trade agreements that countries around the world thought the Americans were legally committed to. I mean, the US-Mexico-Canada agreement, which Trump himself did, Trump is now essentially unwinding from his own authority. Und ich meine, es werden Ausschüsse geben und das wird durch die Gerichte funktionieren.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
Aber wenn du ein Land bist, das versucht, in einer globalen Versorgungsschiene zu arbeiten, ist deine Fähigkeit, darauf zu relying, den Vereinigten Staaten zu zählen, is nowhere close to what it was three months ago.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
And that's before you get into all the other stuff, the claims on Greenland and Panama, the willingness to export algorithms that undermine democracy, the threats to rule of law domestically in the US, going after universities and scientific grants and all of those things that make the US less attractive, just
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
looking at the trade story, this is nothing close to what we had under Biden or under Trump won. And that is what the countries are responding to.
The Chuck ToddCast
Is Trump ceding America's power to Xi Jinping & China
With the exception of India, which is important, and we can get to that in a bit, all of those countries already had China as their leading trade partner. So, I mean, the United States having just blown up USAID and now saying they're putting tariffs, another 10% on all these countries, no matter how poor they are, whether or not they have people. Für die Europäer.