Ian Dunt

You're basically unraveling the constitutional agreements that brought peace to Northern Ireland.

They don't care.

You start moving to the refugee convention.

They all want to leave the refugee convention.

So ultimately, it's now a burn-it-down, kind of, sort of Mao Zedong version of right-wing thought.

The Conservative Party.

Is it fair to say that?

Oh, my God, yeah, of course.

I mean, well, it doesn't want to conserve anything at all.

But more importantly, it has no sense of moderation.

The most elegant...

and charming thing you could say about British conservatism that had the closest link to the things that you could most usefully say about the British personality.

Just that sense of gentleness and moderation.

And you know what, for left-wingers and progressives, it's been really helpful, I think, occasionally, just to have conservatives as part of the conversation being like...

Steady on.

OK, fine.

Let's change slowly and carefully.

Will this actually work, what you're talking about?

Yes, exactly.

What are the pragmatic obstacles to what you're trying to achieve?