Jack Clark

I think the nature of the conversations we're having is, we have been saying for years that AI systems would get better, and they would keep getting better until they got better than people at most tasks, and it started encoding last year.

don't be surprised when they get better at other tasks as well.

And that doesn't go down super well on the calls, so then you frame it as, well, what do we do about this?

And I think the challenge is, this isn't a special model.

This is representative of... This isn't your hacking model, as I get it.

It's our regular Claude.

And it's really good at hacking.

Claude turns out to be good at hacking now as well.

But what it means is there will be many systems like this, and the world is going to adapt to this.

We have a chance to use it to make much of the world much more secure.

But at the same time, we now have these new capabilities in the world we have to contend with.

We announced 40 and we've been expanding it a bunch over time, so I don't know exactly if it's just the one or if we've expanded it already, but more people are being added over time right now.

Yeah, we think that business strategies which tend more towards mafia than anything else are probably not long-term resilient, so we won't be doing that.

I do think that the shape of this in the future is parts of AI need to become actually a true utility where you would expect things like,

cyber defense capabilities to be something that you provide at cost, or it costs you to provide you with no margin.

I'm sorry if my financial officer is listening to me say that.

But it's the shape of where you end up in the future, where there are all these capabilities that matter for society.

You need to proliferate those into society without charging society for it, or you end up in a really bad incentive structure.

I mean, I imagine, if we get this right...

a better future where people get to spend more time with one another and less time being kind of atomized and driven away from their families and friends.