Jack Recider

Lighthouse Reports is an investigative nonprofit working with some of the world's leading media companies on topics like migration and surveillance. And a lot of episodes you hear on my show are sometimes slapped together in a matter of weeks, and it's just me doing the research. But not this episode. Here, we have the luxury of talking with a real reporter who spent lots of time on this story.

Lighthouse Reports is an investigative nonprofit working with some of the world's leading media companies on topics like migration and surveillance. And a lot of episodes you hear on my show are sometimes slapped together in a matter of weeks, and it's just me doing the research. But not this episode. Here, we have the luxury of talking with a real reporter who spent lots of time on this story.

The team at Lighthouse Reports spent over six months researching this story, and they worked together with other reporters and journalists and researchers, places like Inside Story in Greece and Haaretz in Israel. They published similar stories, too. And when I first read the story, I was like, whoa, what? So buckle up and let's go for a ride.

The team at Lighthouse Reports spent over six months researching this story, and they worked together with other reporters and journalists and researchers, places like Inside Story in Greece and Haaretz in Israel. They published similar stories, too. And when I first read the story, I was like, whoa, what? So buckle up and let's go for a ride.

The person at the center of this story is a guy named Tal Dillion.

The person at the center of this story is a guy named Tal Dillion.

So I want to jump in here and underline this for a second. Tal went through the Israeli military. Specifically, he was in Unit 81, which designs new tools for the Israeli military to use. I've heard that Unit 81 once designed a little microphone that is supposed to look like a rock.

So I want to jump in here and underline this for a second. Tal went through the Israeli military. Specifically, he was in Unit 81, which designs new tools for the Israeli military to use. I've heard that Unit 81 once designed a little microphone that is supposed to look like a rock.

So you could just set it down in an area you want to record audio in, and it's hidden, so nobody knows they're being recorded. I imagine they make a lot of spy gear for the Israeli military. Yeah, so Tal came out of that division, and when he left the military, he created a company called Circles, which I believe was a surveillance company that used SS7 attacks to spy on mobile users.

So you could just set it down in an area you want to record audio in, and it's hidden, so nobody knows they're being recorded. I imagine they make a lot of spy gear for the Israeli military. Yeah, so Tal came out of that division, and when he left the military, he created a company called Circles, which I believe was a surveillance company that used SS7 attacks to spy on mobile users.

SS7 attacks are really fascinating. I'm not going to get bogged down into the details of how they work, but real quick, SS7 is a way to exploit mobile carriers into getting info on the users or even taking over their phone number. And I believe this company that Tal started, Circles, was using SS7 attacks to collect data from targets and intercept messages and phone calls.

SS7 attacks are really fascinating. I'm not going to get bogged down into the details of how they work, but real quick, SS7 is a way to exploit mobile carriers into getting info on the users or even taking over their phone number. And I believe this company that Tal started, Circles, was using SS7 attacks to collect data from targets and intercept messages and phone calls.

Well, this became quite the service. So much so that NSO Group was like, hey, that's cool. Can we buy it? Now, NSO Group is someone I've covered in detail before. That's episode 100. And it's actually the most listened to episode of this show. But to quickly recap who they are, NSO Group makes spyware called Pegasus and then sells it to governments around the world. who then, well, spy on people.

Well, this became quite the service. So much so that NSO Group was like, hey, that's cool. Can we buy it? Now, NSO Group is someone I've covered in detail before. That's episode 100. And it's actually the most listened to episode of this show. But to quickly recap who they are, NSO Group makes spyware called Pegasus and then sells it to governments around the world. who then, well, spy on people.

It infects the phone and then gives the government full visibility into it. So when NSO saw how nifty this Circles company was, they purchased the company from Tal for $140 million. Now, what would you do if you just sold your company for $140 million? Well, I'd move to a nice warm island somewhere. And that's just what Tal did, too.

It infects the phone and then gives the government full visibility into it. So when NSO saw how nifty this Circles company was, they purchased the company from Tal for $140 million. Now, what would you do if you just sold your company for $140 million? Well, I'd move to a nice warm island somewhere. And that's just what Tal did, too.

He moved to Cyprus, which is an island nation just off the coast of Israel in the Mediterranean Sea. But while there, he started talking with another Israeli named Abraham Avni. Abraham was a businessman and started a company called Pegasus Flight Center in Cyprus. I think they did charter planes. And together, Tal and Abraham started a new project, a surveillance tool.

He moved to Cyprus, which is an island nation just off the coast of Israel in the Mediterranean Sea. But while there, he started talking with another Israeli named Abraham Avni. Abraham was a businessman and started a company called Pegasus Flight Center in Cyprus. I think they did charter planes. And together, Tal and Abraham started a new project, a surveillance tool.

It might also be a weird spelling for whisper. Anyway, Tal started advertising this mobile surveillance technology. And that's when Forbes is like, hey, that looks interesting. Do you mind showing us on camera what you're working on? And he's like, sure, come on out. So Forbes goes to Cyprus and interviews him.

It might also be a weird spelling for whisper. Anyway, Tal started advertising this mobile surveillance technology. And that's when Forbes is like, hey, that looks interesting. Do you mind showing us on camera what you're working on? And he's like, sure, come on out. So Forbes goes to Cyprus and interviews him.