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Jacob Kimmel

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
972 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

And so evolution has optimized for being able to just swap one TF in or swap one TF out of a combination.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

and get pretty different effects.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

And so you have this sort of like local change in sequence or gene set space leading to a pretty large global change in output.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

And then likewise, many of these TFs again are duplicated in the genome.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

And because mutations are going to be random and they're inherently small changes at the level of sequence at a given time,

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

Evolution needs a substrate where in order to function effectively, these small changes can give you relatively large changes in phenotype.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

Otherwise, it would just take a very long time across evolutionary history for enough mutations to accumulate in some duplicated copy of the gene for you to evolve a new TF that does something interesting.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

And so I think we're actually in most cases in biology, due to that evolutionary constraint, small edits need to lead to meaningful phenotypic changes in a relatively favorable regime for generic gradient-like optimizers.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

You know, it would be maybe a little bit overstating to say evolution is like using the gradient, but there is a system kind of like if you've heard of evolution strategies, where basically the way you optimize parameters is you can't take a gradient on your loss, so you make a bunch of copies of your parameters, you randomly modify them,

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

And then you compute a gradient on your parameters against your loss.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

And so you can take a gradient in that space.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

That's kind of how I imagine evolution is working.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

And so you need lots of those little edits to actually lead you to have meaningful step sizes in terms of the ultimate output that you have.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

And to think like, you know, why would transcription factors... Maybe this is getting a little bit too gigabrained about it, but like, why does the genome even have transcription factors?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

Like, what's the point?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

Why not just have every time you want a new cell type, you like engineer some new cassette of genes or some new totally de novo set of promoters or something like this?

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

I think one possible explanation for their existence rather than just an appreciation for their presence is that

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

Well, having transcription factors allows a very small number of base pair edits at the substrate of the genome to lead to very large phenotypic differences.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

If I break a transcription factor, I can delete a whole cell type in the body.

Dwarkesh Podcast
Evolution designed us to die fast; we can change that โ€” Jacob Kimmel

If I retarget a transcription factor to different genes, I can dramatically change when cells respond and have, you know, hundreds of their downstream effector genes change their behavior in response to the environment.