Jake Humphrey

Like...

On the podcast, we often try and shine a light in the shadows rather than just necessarily fall into this binary way of if you're doping, you're bad, and if you do it clean, you're good.

I think when we understand the culture that so many people

people will often find themselves in, whether it's the comparison culture of convincing yourself that everyone else is on this, that for many years, it sounds like elite cycling had this sense of omerta, that everybody's cheating.

So if you're not going to join them, they're only going to beat you.

Some people, it's almost like their identity gets too tightly wrapped up in the sense of being an athlete or being a winner, and therefore you try and prolong your career or you try and find those little shortcuts, those little hacks,

to why you do it.

Sometimes it's coaches.

Sometimes it's the adults in your life that turn a blind eye to it or facilitate it.

I think the thing about it is it's like an ecosystem.

There's no one reason why people dope.

There's lots of different factors.

And I think if we can come at it from a place of understanding and empathy, you can help people make better decisions.

Well, shall we hear from James Witt, the author of the book Dope?

I'd love to, and the book's out now, if anybody wants to explore it a little bit deeper, but I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

James, it's a pleasure to have you with us here, and I absolutely loved your new book.

I'm interested, what surprised you the most in the writing of it?

Yeah.

And was it specific sports then where this disconnect was highest?

okay because your book reminded me of um i remember reading many years ago a book by tyler hamilton the cyclist who who like revealed that he had been doping and that book so it was the first time i'd had real empathy with somebody that though uh so that dogs he spoke about how i think he was a painter and decorator from colorado and he spoke about this uh paniagua that like bread and water he cycled in the sort of european tour