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Jake Sullivan

👤 Speaker
311 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

I think things are unfolding so rapidly in the Middle East right now that it's difficult to give you any kind of confident answers to those questions. I'm reminded of my fellow Minnesotan Bob Dylan's song, The Times They Are a-Changing.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

I think things are unfolding so rapidly in the Middle East right now that it's difficult to give you any kind of confident answers to those questions. I'm reminded of my fellow Minnesotan Bob Dylan's song, The Times They Are a-Changing.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

Iran is weaker than it's been since the Iranian revolution, and yet a weaker Iran still represents a genuine threat because a weaker Iran could decide it has no choice but to go nuclear, and that's something we are going to have to contend with. In Syria, the fall of a brutal butcher in Assad is a good thing.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

Iran is weaker than it's been since the Iranian revolution, and yet a weaker Iran still represents a genuine threat because a weaker Iran could decide it has no choice but to go nuclear, and that's something we are going to have to contend with. In Syria, the fall of a brutal butcher in Assad is a good thing.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

That man has no business ruling over a people that he's massacred at scale over the course of many years. On the other hand, it has created a genuine threat of extremism and terrorism that is going to have to be managed and contained over the coming months and years. I will point out one concern I have that's quite immediate.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

That man has no business ruling over a people that he's massacred at scale over the course of many years. On the other hand, it has created a genuine threat of extremism and terrorism that is going to have to be managed and contained over the coming months and years. I will point out one concern I have that's quite immediate.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

which is our biggest counterterrorism partner against ISIS was the Kurds, a group called the Syrian Democratic Forces. There is a threat now against them from both Turkey and Turkish-supported opposition forces in Syria to take territory that the Kurds hold in Syria.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

which is our biggest counterterrorism partner against ISIS was the Kurds, a group called the Syrian Democratic Forces. There is a threat now against them from both Turkey and Turkish-supported opposition forces in Syria to take territory that the Kurds hold in Syria.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

If they do so, it could lead the Kurds to take their eye off the prisons where thousands of ISIS fighters and ISIS families are being held. And if that happens, you could see prison breaks that lead to this huge number of ISIS fighters running free. And so on and so forth. You can follow that down the path of your imagination.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

If they do so, it could lead the Kurds to take their eye off the prisons where thousands of ISIS fighters and ISIS families are being held. And if that happens, you could see prison breaks that lead to this huge number of ISIS fighters running free. And so on and so forth. You can follow that down the path of your imagination.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

So the most important thing from my perspective is that we recognize what America's fundamental interests are here. Our first interest is to make sure that we continue to keep the pressure on ISIS so that ISIS does not reemerge as a major territorial challenge as it did a decade ago. The second is that we support our friends in the region so that...

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

So the most important thing from my perspective is that we recognize what America's fundamental interests are here. Our first interest is to make sure that we continue to keep the pressure on ISIS so that ISIS does not reemerge as a major territorial challenge as it did a decade ago. The second is that we support our friends in the region so that...

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

The instability that's emanating from Syria and elsewhere does not wash over them in Jordan, in Iraq, in Egypt, of course, in Israel, and to keep this fragile ceasefire in Lebanon and try to have it grow out. The third is actually to try to ensure that Iran can never get a nuclear weapon. That has been a position of Democratic and Republican administrations.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

The instability that's emanating from Syria and elsewhere does not wash over them in Jordan, in Iraq, in Egypt, of course, in Israel, and to keep this fragile ceasefire in Lebanon and try to have it grow out. The third is actually to try to ensure that Iran can never get a nuclear weapon. That has been a position of Democratic and Republican administrations.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

That's a great question to ask me in six months after I've slept for a really long time, because honestly, I haven't had the time since November to reflect. I was hoping to reflect and then Assad fell and lots of other things happened, even just during the transition.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

That's a great question to ask me in six months after I've slept for a really long time, because honestly, I haven't had the time since November to reflect. I was hoping to reflect and then Assad fell and lots of other things happened, even just during the transition.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

So I can't give you a fully formed, coherent answer to the question, but I can give you the beginning of an answer, which is that I actually think... This election was determined less by the deeply structural factors we were talking about earlier and more by immediate things. post-COVID economics, high prices, the feeling people had of dislocation in the years following the pandemic.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

So I can't give you a fully formed, coherent answer to the question, but I can give you the beginning of an answer, which is that I actually think... This election was determined less by the deeply structural factors we were talking about earlier and more by immediate things. post-COVID economics, high prices, the feeling people had of dislocation in the years following the pandemic.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

And what I believe quite deeply is that President Biden's economic policies, the fruits of them, and the benefits that flow to the American people will be measured in decades, and political cycles are measured in years. And the gap between those two things, I think, has a lot to do with why President Trump won this election.

The Ezra Klein Show
Biden Promised to ‘Turn the Page’ on Trump. What Went Wrong?

And what I believe quite deeply is that President Biden's economic policies, the fruits of them, and the benefits that flow to the American people will be measured in decades, and political cycles are measured in years. And the gap between those two things, I think, has a lot to do with why President Trump won this election.