James Cleverley

Well, I've got to go there.

No, we can come on to that.

We can come on to similar themes.

But, no, my point is, three people

Essentially, the history books will put three people down as the big creators of Brexit.

Cameron for doing the referendum, Johnson led the campaign, and Farage.

And you could maybe add our press as well for 20 years of Euroscepticism.

Two of them have been prime minister.

Most people in the country now would say that Brexit has not worked out as they planned, including people who voted for it.

And yet, it is not impossible that we put the third of those into office, into Downing Street.

I agree with you, it probably won't happen, but he is leading the polls and it might happen.

And that says to me that neither of the main parties have wanted to confront the reality of the consequences of Brexit.

No, I'm not saying that.

I'm not saying that.

What I'm saying is that anything else that happened in our politics that did so much damage to our economy and our standing in the world, the author of it would pay a big price.

Cameron paid a price.

Johnson paid a price for other things.

The fact that Farage never gets challenged on his role means he's just been able to move away because you guys and Labour...

We're definitely not going to agree on the facts on that.

Because it's not true.