James Kynge

But at the moment, that's how I see it.

I think this is historic.

in terms of US-China relations for this shifting power balance between the two.

What are you seeing, Alice?

What do you reckon to that call?

Well, I mean, I was just going to say, I completely agree with your point of view that, you know, the rhetoric around this summit is going to be fairly positive, I believe.

But to my way of thinking, there is going to be a disconnect between what the rhetoric says, the mood music, the vibes, as you put it,

and really what the security state in each country is thinking about the other.

I don't think there's been the slightest change in that regard.

I think both the security state in China and the security state in the US views the other as an implacable adversary.

And so I think, you know, we're going to have another replay of this disconnect between positive vibes and then the

deep state in both countries grinding away undermining the relationship sowing suspicion and that's where you know the issue of dual use that you mentioned really comes in because technology is dual use these days it is hard to get away from the way in which technology has changed has meant that you know the internet your computer your phone all of these things become well

Not exactly dual use, but they could be used for cyber snooping.

They could be used by the deep state of the other side.

And that's just some of the most commonplace technologies we have when you're talking about this 5G or 5.5G telecoms cables that you lay under the ground.

That issue of dual use becomes magnified.

So

I think that we're going to get a positive vibe from this summit.

Both sides are going to try and do that.

But in the background, the suspicion is going to maintain itself.