James Marks

And it was finally in 2011 where I had to make a management change there, give some equity to my top guys, and then just step back and say, OK, VG Kids is your ship, and I'm going to focus on Whiplash.

So that was kind of all gradually happening in 2011, 2012.

And by the way, they have done incredible work with it.

I could not be happier with the way with what they've done with that company.

Yeah, exactly.

And it is terrifying because they do things differently.

But what I've actually learned through the process is that I'm good at growing companies.

I'm also expensive to have around, not just in my personal salary, but just in the decisions I make and going after growth.

And they're running a much stabler, much more profitable company than I ever was.

And so it's interesting to watch just how those different personalities play and to understand what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.

I'm not good at running a stable company profitably.

That's not what I do.

So in the beginning, the very first conversation was my partner, Sean Hurley, came to me with an opportunity.

He was working for Modest Mouse, the indie rock band at the time.

And he was able to say, hey, I've got this opportunity to run this web store.

If you want to do it with me, we could partner.

And we both felt like that was 50-50.

There was no discussion about it.

And then once we were running that, we were running this web store for Modest Mouse, which we still do, but we realized there wasn't quite a company to build around it, and that's when we figured out that there was a company to build around shipping for e-commerce.

And we brought in our third co-founder, Mark Dixon, and that conversation has been tricky at times, and his equity has actually changed over time because he came in kind of early, and then you're like, well, wait a minute, he's been around for all these years, and his equity doesn't really...