James Oaten

The other argument that they've made is the child that she has, saying that this is a girl who desperately needs her mum by her side.

Now, again, this is a girl who grew up in the camps with her mum.

And as we discussed in the first episode, how children can be impacted by those camps can vary greatly.

This is making some broad comments before we go back into Zainab Ahmed's case.

But fundamentally, a mother in these circumstances can be

can change the trajectory or outcomes of a child tremendously if they show that love and support and education can really assist their rehabilitation.

And for instance, with Maryam Raad's case, this is a case that has come in years prior, she did get bail because it was shown that there were problems in that rehabilitation if the mother was removed.

And she did get bail to resume that kind of love and care and support that a child

would need, especially one coming from these kind of traumatic situations.

So that argument was put quite stridently in the court.

But ultimately, while that was acknowledged by the chief magistrate, again, it just boiled down to that risk factor and that idea that

Your announcement that you actually don't like Islamic State after all is too little, too late.

No, and she won't be.

And as we know, this is a case that will likely run some years.

A final argument on that point was that the defence team was saying that this case will go for a very long period of time.

They've made a couple of points, one of which is that

They argued that the allegations are against her on the lower side, especially like if we compare her to the father.

They have spelt out that point I made before that women didn't really have any control or say in what was happening under Islamic State.

It's kind of nudging at the idea.

It's like, well, what did you expect her to be able to do in terms of like this slave couldn't leave the house or what did you kind of expect her to do?