James O'Loughlin

Yeah, they're all good ideas.

Yeah, we were competing with them.

It seems to me one of the reasons why you had some success here was because you were willing to surrender the moral victory to the ministers in some way.

So in March 2021, Jum was interviewed for 7.30 on the ABC and you finally heard from Greg Hunt's office.

What did they put to you?

Meanwhile, John was on his last legs.

How did you try and manage the way you thought and felt about that?

Did you try and put the looming kind of wall of grief you were about to hit in

out of the way so you could get the work done, or did you just give into it a bit?

Then you met the man who's now the Federal Opposition Leader, Angus Taylor, who was then Energy Minister.

While you were emceeing a gig in rural Queensland.

He was the Minister for Energy then.

Yeah.

What did you say to him when you met him?

Tell me about your last visit with John.

So you won.

Is that one?

Is it winning or is it not that?

What is that?

Is it victory or is victory too silly or worthy?