Jamie Laing

So it's a weird balance that you have with them, isn't it?

But how do you think growing up on screen, right, at such a young age, how do you think that shaped your identity?

Being in the entertainment business, it's all about being liked.

Yeah.

By the audience, by commissioners, by producers.

In the book, you talk about how you were publicly disliked at times.

But the Fern that I know, I don't remember that.

So you had never had it before?

It was suddenly out of nowhere.

And that's why it's so important for someone like you to talk about it because when you're in that place, you feel like there's no end.

You feel imprisoned within your own body, especially when it's to do with panic.

And you are living in constant fear.

And in your head, you're just going, well, this is me forever.

This is me forever.

And you can't see a way out.

And that is a scary place to get to.

You used to do that?

Oh my God, are you kidding me?

Because I need to caveat this because you and I, we spoke about this in your podcast, your great podcast, but we've been for dinners, right?

And I find Fern Cotton is one of the most alpha women I've ever met.