Jamie Wall

And so what I'm saying is that when it comes to the South African Tour this year, these figures will be through the gate.

Next year's Rugby World Cup will be absolutely massive.

But what they've done is they've created a pyramid where everything was about the All Blacks, and this bit has been neglected.

And this is the bit now that if it doesn't actually get attention and actually resources and everything else, then that bit at the top is eventually going to suffer, isn't it?

This is what the big equation is for New Zealand rugby.

Promising a 13 or 14-year-old rugby league contract, mate.

Well, I mean, all of that.

But I'm just saying that pricing a kid at 13 or 14, a rugby league contract in Australia, when the chances are, as you say, less than 1% that he actually plays.

Is that the answer for rugby?

And I know you can throw these figures up.

Look, I watched Sacred Heart play about, I don't know how many weeks ago it was, and I was just thoroughly impressed, actually.

What were you doing that for?

Kids went to Sacred Heart and kids wanted to go and watch it.

But, Duncan, so what we want to end up with this is that, obviously, in terms of the politics, you're right every day.

In terms of this, you're completely wrong.

And it's okay to be wrong, and it's okay to say you're wrong, Duncan.

And how many of them are going to make it?

I tell you what impresses me the most is that you care enough, mate.

You care enough to talk about this and that's the only thing that matters here.

They're hardworking New Zealanders, mate, who've actually paid taxes for 40 frigging years and they deserve every cent of it.