Jared Kushner

in the West of his country that won't be a creep.

And I think that there's two different parts of the mindset.

The people who are most cynical of Putin will say, well, he's just trying to recreate the USSR.

He's being expansionist.

And the people who want to be sympathetic to him will say, well, if you think about it, the Russian perception of the NATO arrangement was that they wouldn't be expanding westward.

Over the last years, they've included all these countries that they said they promised they wouldn't

include.

Who knows what the promises were or weren't.

But what I do know from his perspective is allowing Ukraine into NATO was always a red line.

And that's why we never offered it.

We never provoked it.

We never brought it up.

We said, we're going to arm them.

And we basically said, just calm down.

We don't want any conflicts there.

We have bigger issues and bigger opportunities to work from.

So I do think you have to think through what's a paradigm that he can accept.

And I do think that he'll give the justification for why he's done what he's done.

And then I think the framework for a solution is about how do we move both parties forward?

Tough job.