Jared Kushner

And then through that interaction, he called some of his contacts in North Korea.

And then we were able with the CIA to open up a back channel that ultimately led to the

the de-escalation, the meeting between Trump and Kim Jong-un, which led to a de-escalation.

So that was really the mindset, which was whenever there's a problem, just pick up the phone and try.

And I think President Trump had a very similar approach, which was let's give it a shot.

And he wasn't afraid to go after the hard ones too.

And I'll say one final thing on this, which is that in politics,

the incentive structure is just much different than in the real world, right?

In the sense that you have a hard problem, then if you try to solve a hard problem, the likelihood of failure is great.

Whereas in the business world, if you're going after a hard problem, we celebrate those people, right?

We want our entrepreneurs and our great people to go after solving the big, hard problems.

But in politics, if you try to take on a hard problem,

You have a high likelihood of failure.

You'll get a lot of criticism on your pathway to trying to accomplish that if you fail.

And then if you fail, it has a higher probability of leading to you losing your opportunity to serve.

And so it's just one of these things where people want to play it safe, which is not the notion that really was taken during the time that President Trump was in office.

I don't think it has to be that way.

And that's, I think, one of the great lessons from the time of the Trump administration.

He brought a lot of people from the business world into government.

The business people have a much different mindset than government people.