Jaron Lanier

But there is a difference between what Epstein was doing and piggish behavior.

You really think they knew that or was some sort of rumor around there and they hadn't seen it and they just kind of looked the other way because there was convenience there and, you know.

Right.

But just because Trump knew doesn't mean, you know, someone like Bill Gates knew.

I mean, it's entirely possible that people are on these trips and they didn't see anything.

And I mean, just the explanation to me makes more sense that someone like a Bill Gates just maybe heard rumors or it just it makes sense that he'd be willing to look the other way and just shrug it off to some rumor.

I don't think he would have seen it or witnessed it.

I just have a hard time believing that he would continue to.

Yeah.

put himself in this guy's presence if he saw that, if he really knew.

Yeah, let's start with this.

So this is what was discovered.

Epstein to you, Sam, we met with John Brockman at the TED event.

I thought you might enjoy a dinner with Woody Allen, Chomsky, and me.

It should be fun.

What do you write?

By the way, this is May of 2015.

What do you write back?

Oh my God, you could have been killed for this.

You said, only if we film it.