Jason Horowitz

And eventually he becomes the Cardinal of Buenos Aires, which is a huge figure in Argentina, a huge figure within South America.

And eventually he becomes the Cardinal of Buenos Aires, which is a huge figure in Argentina, a huge figure within South America.

And stories start being told about this cardinal in Buenos Aires who is a little bit different. And I was covering the Vatican back then. And I remember there was this image of him which made the rounds. And it was this cardinal taking the bus. And that was just something you didn't see much. You know, I thought maybe that this is someone to pay attention to.

And stories start being told about this cardinal in Buenos Aires who is a little bit different. And I was covering the Vatican back then. And I remember there was this image of him which made the rounds. And it was this cardinal taking the bus. And that was just something you didn't see much. You know, I thought maybe that this is someone to pay attention to.

Yeah, Francis, I mean, even before he was Pope Francis, he was sort of a master of gestures. It showed his flock, the entire country, that he didn't think that he was better than them. That was a talent he had.

Yeah, Francis, I mean, even before he was Pope Francis, he was sort of a master of gestures. It showed his flock, the entire country, that he didn't think that he was better than them. That was a talent he had.

So I think it's important to remember where the church was in 2013, the year Francis became pope. It had been governed and led for decades by a very conservative streak. And the pope at the time was Benedict XVI, who had been the keeper of the orthodoxy, the guardian of the church's doctrine. And he retired, which shocked the entire world. Right, popes don't retire. Right, it was a shock.

So I think it's important to remember where the church was in 2013, the year Francis became pope. It had been governed and led for decades by a very conservative streak. And the pope at the time was Benedict XVI, who had been the keeper of the orthodoxy, the guardian of the church's doctrine. And he retired, which shocked the entire world. Right, popes don't retire. Right, it was a shock.

And the question is, okay, where is the church going to go now? And so now maybe the church needed to try something new. It had been with the Italians for centuries. Then it tried Europe. And so the idea was, well, these cardinals were probably going to look elsewhere from Europe.

And the question is, okay, where is the church going to go now? And so now maybe the church needed to try something new. It had been with the Italians for centuries. Then it tried Europe. And so the idea was, well, these cardinals were probably going to look elsewhere from Europe.

That's right. It means with a key. They lock them in with a key so that they can't come out until they pick a new pope. But there's a small time frame before that begins in which the cardinals can sort of... Because you're not allowed to campaign, and campaign is definitely frowned upon. But you can give speeches about what you think is most important for the church, right?

That's right. It means with a key. They lock them in with a key so that they can't come out until they pick a new pope. But there's a small time frame before that begins in which the cardinals can sort of... Because you're not allowed to campaign, and campaign is definitely frowned upon. But you can give speeches about what you think is most important for the church, right?

So Francis Bergoglio at the time gives this speech, which is very short. And basically what he says is, we have... closed the door in on ourselves. We are so self-referential. It's time not just for us to open the windows and let fresh air in. It's time for us to get out. We have got to get out of the church and go to what he calls the peripheries, right? So far away.

So Francis Bergoglio at the time gives this speech, which is very short. And basically what he says is, we have... closed the door in on ourselves. We are so self-referential. It's time not just for us to open the windows and let fresh air in. It's time for us to get out. We have got to get out of the church and go to what he calls the peripheries, right? So far away.

We need to go where people are. We need to sort of be on the streets with these people. And he means it sort of literally, right? He wants priests to get out of their churches and go talk to people. But he also means it's time for us to stop being so obsessed with ourselves and go talk to people and deal with the lives they're actually living.

We need to go where people are. We need to sort of be on the streets with these people. And he means it sort of literally, right? He wants priests to get out of their churches and go talk to people. But he also means it's time for us to stop being so obsessed with ourselves and go talk to people and deal with the lives they're actually living.

We need to go to them to show them that we care and show them why we think that this is the best way to live. And that speech really sort of knocks everyone's socks off. And they decide when they go into the conclave, this is the guy who's going to lead us

We need to go to them to show them that we care and show them why we think that this is the best way to live. And that speech really sort of knocks everyone's socks off. And they decide when they go into the conclave, this is the guy who's going to lead us

Peter's Square.

Peter's Square.