Jason Meno
speaker
219 appearances
2 recordings
1 series
first heard Oct 2024
last heard Oct 2024
Jason Meno’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Yeah, exactly.
I mean, that's that's it makes sense to me. Yeah.
Yeah, there's an ocean of data kind of coming in. And this is only 35 people that finished this. So I would love to see this expand out into an actual study with thousands of people and with a control group as well to see how this happens. Because there's all sorts of questions I have about this related to why did their belief change.
Yeah, like number one question for me is... Why would meditating change your belief in a negative thought?
Because we're seeing it's changing them a little bit. They're not crushing the thoughts by any means. It's definitely not as powerful as team or externalization of voices or actual cognitive techniques. But there's an effect happening here. And whether that effect is purely from like...
You know, there could be a Hawthorne effect of just the fact that we're regularly showing them their negative thought over and over again and having them like think about it by showing it to them over and over again. That could be having an effect. There could be, you know.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's right.
I mean, the Hawthorne effect is you know that you're being watched and you're being studied. So you're actively thinking to yourself, oh, should I be thinking about these negative thoughts? Should I be trying to change these negative thought beliefs? So the relationship you have to the data is being influenced just by us studying you and asking you these questions. Yeah.
So it's possible there might be some kind of pressure they're putting on themselves knowing that they're studying this. And of course they're familiar with you, David. They're like, they're familiar with team and this podcast. So they likely have this expectation perhaps on themselves. Actually, that's a question I didn't ask.
How much do you expect, you know, the belief in your thoughts to change? Um, I didn't ask that question, unfortunately.
Right. Yeah. Like if we scaled up these numbers and we got a group of people who weren't so familiar with David, weren't so familiar with meditation, and we gathered those demographics and controlled for them, what effects would we see then? Yeah, that's a big question too.
Yes. Like I sent out an email and the title of this experiment is called the mindfulness mystery and experiment. So people who probably are interested in helping out with this experiment or interested in mindfulness and meditation, they self-selected into participating as well.
Yeah. And again, just a reminder, the first meditation was a body scan. And it's actually quite a hands on meditation where the guided meditation is this woman talking to you every couple seconds telling you, OK, now pay attention to this part of your body and relax that. Now pay attention to this part of your body. So, you know, big question is why would that have such a effect?
effect on your belief in your negative thoughts and how upsetting they are. Here's my hypothesis. Because what we're talking about with the placebo effect is how are you making meaning of what's happening to you? And how are you making meaning about the things that upset you? And what would it be about sitting and feeling like you're meditating by scanning through your body
What would change the meaning making you're doing about your life or yourself or the problems going on that are upsetting you just by engaging in that activity? And I imagine it's very similar to exercise, where when you're exercising, you believe you're doing something very good for yourself. I think there's quite a universal belief that exercise is good thing. Exercise is healthy.
Exercise will help me. Yeah. That in itself is a huge, huge meaning making effect you're doing.
And so with meditation, I imagine there might be a similar belief here that's happening, which is this is going to help me. This is something good for me.
Yeah, relaxing. Like that's the other part of this too, which is I really think in my personal experience with meditating as well, because I meditate a lot and I'm also like challenging my negative thoughts on the side too. And I can see the limits of how my meditation does and doesn't help me.
And I can certainly say that there is a therapeutic benefit sometimes to disengaging from the problem for a little bit before trying to re-engage it again. Yeah. So there might be something quite good about basically – when you're caught up in your negative thoughts, it's almost like you have blinders on and you're just staring down the tunnel of all the negativity.
Like you're really – you're discounting the positive.
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