Jason Wachub

What have you found in your research, in your experience?

Agreed.

And I think there's a balance to, you know, I come from the old school mentality where there was also fear played.

And in some ways, again, I'm speaking personally, fear sometimes sucked the joy out of play.

And I still got through it and performed, but I kind of lost the love along the way.

And it's this balance, right?

You need to push to realize potential, but at the same time, once the joy or the love goes, it's going to be a tough road.

Or in your word, maybe not the most fulfilling road.

You still may get to the top, win the gold medal, whatever, but it may feel pretty empty.

I'm curious what your personal view is on goals.

Because I hear a lot, and just reflecting on our conversation, I hear about having an openness, infusing spontaneity, being open to communication, going with the flow, being positive, having faith.

In some ways, almost the antithesis to someone who's very goal-oriented, where this is what I got to do, this is what I'm going to achieve, and I'm going to do it, and then move.

Moving on.

Mike, I could talk to you about Grateful Dead for two hours in a different podcast, but we'll... I don't know if our audience would be interested in that, but, you know...

I love that.

And I want to talk about mindset also.

You speak about Ellen Langer in the book who we've had on the show and we love, specifically the time travel aging experiment, which is so good.

Can you share that one?

It was just unbelievable.

You know, this idea of full immersion.