JD Vance

That's right. Yeah, that's right. I mean, look, it's and I'm sure that New York Times listeners are going to be scandalized by by this line of argumentation. But I think it's really important that in some ways the deportation infrastructure that is developed in the United States is not adequate to the task, given what Joe Biden left us.

Now, there are different estimates here of how many illegal immigrants came in under the Biden administration. Was it 12 million? Was it 20 million immigrants? You know, it's hard to count this stuff because you have known gotaways, you have unknown gotaways, you have the people that we never even saw across the border. So there's a little bit of guesswork in all this.

Now, there are different estimates here of how many illegal immigrants came in under the Biden administration. Was it 12 million? Was it 20 million immigrants? You know, it's hard to count this stuff because you have known gotaways, you have unknown gotaways, you have the people that we never even saw across the border. So there's a little bit of guesswork in all this.

I actually think the number is much closer to 20 than to 12 million.

I actually think the number is much closer to 20 than to 12 million.

They did. And I think they're undercounting it because I think they're counting the people that we were aware of. I don't think they were counting that estimate, unknown gotaways. They weren't counting certain classes of asylum seekers, of TPS seekers. So they were answering the question as honestly as they could. But I think if you look at the grand scheme of it, it's higher. But

They did. And I think they're undercounting it because I think they're counting the people that we were aware of. I don't think they were counting that estimate, unknown gotaways. They weren't counting certain classes of asylum seekers, of TPS seekers. So they were answering the question as honestly as they could. But I think if you look at the grand scheme of it, it's higher. But

Look, whether it's 12 million or whether it's 20 million, it's a lot. And that is a lot of work ahead of us. Now, there are two things that we can do. I think one thing is a little bit easier and one thing is a little bit harder. And the first thing is you just have to have the actual law enforcement infrastructure to make this possible. And again, I think that we should treat people humanely.

Look, whether it's 12 million or whether it's 20 million, it's a lot. And that is a lot of work ahead of us. Now, there are two things that we can do. I think one thing is a little bit easier and one thing is a little bit harder. And the first thing is you just have to have the actual law enforcement infrastructure to make this possible. And again, I think that we should treat people humanely.

I think we have an obligation to treat people humanely. But I do think that a lot of these illegal immigrants have to go back to where they came from. and that requires more law enforcement officers, it requires more beds at deportation facilities, it just requires more of the basic nuts and bolts of how you run a law enforcement regime in the context of deportation.

I think we have an obligation to treat people humanely. But I do think that a lot of these illegal immigrants have to go back to where they came from. and that requires more law enforcement officers, it requires more beds at deportation facilities, it just requires more of the basic nuts and bolts of how you run a law enforcement regime in the context of deportation.

That's one of the main things in the big beautiful bill that is moving through Congress right now is more money for immigration enforcement. That's what that money is for, to facilitate that deportation infrastructure. There's a much more difficult question. And I think you see the president's frustration.

That's one of the main things in the big beautiful bill that is moving through Congress right now is more money for immigration enforcement. That's what that money is for, to facilitate that deportation infrastructure. There's a much more difficult question. And I think you see the president's frustration.

I've obviously expressed public frustration on this, which is, yes, illegal immigrants, by virtue of being in the United States, are entitled to some due process, okay?

I've obviously expressed public frustration on this, which is, yes, illegal immigrants, by virtue of being in the United States, are entitled to some due process, okay?

But the amount of process that is due and how you enforce those legislative standards and how you actually bring them to bear is, I think, very much an open question. And I think that what you've seen – and I remember when I was in law school, there were all of these people who were wanting to become immigration lawyers.

But the amount of process that is due and how you enforce those legislative standards and how you actually bring them to bear is, I think, very much an open question. And I think that what you've seen – and I remember when I was in law school, there were all of these people who were wanting to become immigration lawyers.

And there was almost a certain buzz around immigration law at the time because there was so much – gray area. There was so much open space where the courts would interpret how to apply these rules. Now, in the context of the United States in 2011, 2012, 2013, when I was in law school, we had significant illegal immigration, but not that much.

And there was almost a certain buzz around immigration law at the time because there was so much – gray area. There was so much open space where the courts would interpret how to apply these rules. Now, in the context of the United States in 2011, 2012, 2013, when I was in law school, we had significant illegal immigration, but not that much.

there was this idea that you could use the asylum claim process, and you could use the refugee process, and you could use all of these other tools of the immigration enforcement regime to actually make it harder to deport illegal aliens. Then what happened is a lot of very well-funded NGOs went about the process of making it much harder to deport illegal aliens.