Jeannie McKay

I don't remember if any, I don't think any of the teachers from Markham High were at the wedding. Yeah. But we were sort of, it just felt like a big family gathering.

I don't remember if any, I don't think any of the teachers from Markham High were at the wedding. Yeah. But we were sort of, it just felt like a big family gathering.

We fooled around in the basement at his reception.

We fooled around in the basement at his reception.

Thanks to her amazing little diaries, her little high school diaries that she cringes at now. You know, we have a bunch of proof of dates and things she said.

Thanks to her amazing little diaries, her little high school diaries that she cringes at now. You know, we have a bunch of proof of dates and things she said.

And she knew that he was being despicable.

And she knew that he was being despicable.

Except it turns out I'm at least blip four. And who knows if there's going to be blip 10, 15, 20. God forbid. Yeah, yeah.

Except it turns out I'm at least blip four. And who knows if there's going to be blip 10, 15, 20. God forbid. Yeah, yeah.

The fact that administration knew, out and out knew, anyone after me, Markham High School was a failure at protecting kids. The York School Board, a failure at protecting kids. Yeah, so anyone that comes after me, it's so sad.

The fact that administration knew, out and out knew, anyone after me, Markham High School was a failure at protecting kids. The York School Board, a failure at protecting kids. Yeah, so anyone that comes after me, it's so sad.

Jackie had the guts. She's always been this really amazing, ballsy lady, smart woman. And she knew that it was tearing friendships apart and she knew it was wrong.

Jackie had the guts. She's always been this really amazing, ballsy lady, smart woman. And she knew that it was tearing friendships apart and she knew it was wrong.

It's nice that he's written that in words to you. He has not apologized to me. That is not an apology to me.

It's nice that he's written that in words to you. He has not apologized to me. That is not an apology to me.

Yeah. None of this actually takes responsibility. I'm not expecting an apology because it would, it would have come years ago. If it was real, it would be from his heart and out of nowhere. I've been trying to find you for 14 years or whatever. I am so sorry. Right. That's an apology. This is not an apology. He's not sorry that he hurt us. He's sorry that he did it

Yeah. None of this actually takes responsibility. I'm not expecting an apology because it would, it would have come years ago. If it was real, it would be from his heart and out of nowhere. I've been trying to find you for 14 years or whatever. I am so sorry. Right. That's an apology. This is not an apology. He's not sorry that he hurt us. He's sorry that he did it

because he was going to get caught and he eventually knew he was going to get caught. And that sort of democles has been hanging over his head and it's been hanging there for all these years. It does not give us our childhood back. It doesn't give us our virginity back. It doesn't give us our high school, healthy high school, joyful experience back.

because he was going to get caught and he eventually knew he was going to get caught. And that sort of democles has been hanging over his head and it's been hanging there for all these years. It does not give us our childhood back. It doesn't give us our virginity back. It doesn't give us our high school, healthy high school, joyful experience back.

It doesn't give us back the nights that we were awake with anguish or shame. I don't, it's just a statement and I just don't care. I don't, I don't want to be in touch with him. I don't want his apology. I don't want money from him. I'm so over him. My concern is my healthy life with my family, my new sister.

It doesn't give us back the nights that we were awake with anguish or shame. I don't, it's just a statement and I just don't care. I don't, I don't want to be in touch with him. I don't want his apology. I don't want money from him. I'm so over him. My concern is my healthy life with my family, my new sister.

He taught music for a quarter century in the Toronto area and victims allege the crimes were missed, ignored or minimized by school administrators, the military and even the police.

He taught music for a quarter century in the Toronto area and victims allege the crimes were missed, ignored or minimized by school administrators, the military and even the police.

Oh, my God. Like, I went to bed thinking, that's it. I don't have to think about them. It's done. I'm done. And then in the morning, you're in the inbox and other people are in my inbox.

Oh, my God. Like, I went to bed thinking, that's it. I don't have to think about them. It's done. I'm done. And then in the morning, you're in the inbox and other people are in my inbox.

I remember him taking us to the Howard Johnson Bar on Markham Road at the hotel. And he took me to the hotel room there once. And this other gal, I don't know her, Denise Cable. She says, I was told one time for a test, I could either play the music piece or neck with him. She says, shocked, I just stood there and began playing.

I remember him taking us to the Howard Johnson Bar on Markham Road at the hotel. And he took me to the hotel room there once. And this other gal, I don't know her, Denise Cable. She says, I was told one time for a test, I could either play the music piece or neck with him. She says, shocked, I just stood there and began playing.

He used to take the students into the storage room to have us play our test, but obviously there was another reason.

He used to take the students into the storage room to have us play our test, but obviously there was another reason.

And then we're going to talk with our new girl tonight.

And then we're going to talk with our new girl tonight.

Well, he was getting married and he got a bunch of us to be his free help, I guess. We all went to the wedding and then went back and served drinks and served appetizers and picked up glasses and things. We felt like we were part of the party. And we knew a bunch of the folks there.

Well, he was getting married and he got a bunch of us to be his free help, I guess. We all went to the wedding and then went back and served drinks and served appetizers and picked up glasses and things. We felt like we were part of the party. And we knew a bunch of the folks there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hi.

Hi.

Good. Nice to see you.

Good. Nice to see you.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Take your time with it. And it's an important one for sure. It's a really important one.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Take your time with it. And it's an important one for sure. It's a really important one.

Yeah. Didn't go into the building. We were looking in the windows basically. Yeah.

Yeah. Didn't go into the building. We were looking in the windows basically. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So how have you been? Good.

So how have you been? Good.

Well, we know all about that. Anne-Marie Robinson lived it. But now, once again, police have told Ali what the teacher did. Having sex with a student in 1987 was not illegal.

Well, we know all about that. Anne-Marie Robinson lived it. But now, once again, police have told Ali what the teacher did. Having sex with a student in 1987 was not illegal.

The tools Professor Benedet is talking about are different charges, laws that were already on the books and could be applied to cases that happened before 1988. But they are charges not often used in crimes against girls, such as gross indecency.

The tools Professor Benedet is talking about are different charges, laws that were already on the books and could be applied to cases that happened before 1988. But they are charges not often used in crimes against girls, such as gross indecency.

On these calls, Jeannie is often joined by Anne-Marie, Jackie, Rita, Siobhan, and Ali. We've heard all their stories in previous episodes. Today, they've come together to hear about our visit to Sam's house. the dad who punched the music teacher. Sam served Anne-Marie and me tea in his spotless living room. There were tears and hugs.

On these calls, Jeannie is often joined by Anne-Marie, Jackie, Rita, Siobhan, and Ali. We've heard all their stories in previous episodes. Today, they've come together to hear about our visit to Sam's house. the dad who punched the music teacher. Sam served Anne-Marie and me tea in his spotless living room. There were tears and hugs.

In the past, the gross indecency law was used to convict gay men who had consensual sex with other men. So it's definitely been a problematic law.

In the past, the gross indecency law was used to convict gay men who had consensual sex with other men. So it's definitely been a problematic law.

She means a case where a teacher assaulted female students.

She means a case where a teacher assaulted female students.

So why aren't the police looking at that charge? The whole situation leaves the survivors indignant and furious.

So why aren't the police looking at that charge? The whole situation leaves the survivors indignant and furious.

The he Jeannie McKay is talking about is Doug Walker. I've joined the blipsters on their regular call. Ali has just filled them in.

The he Jeannie McKay is talking about is Doug Walker. I've joined the blipsters on their regular call. Ali has just filled them in.

Well, I kind of see Anne-Marie as the deputy minister of the group.

Well, I kind of see Anne-Marie as the deputy minister of the group.

Now I'm playing back some of the tape I recorded from that visit. The other survivors want to hear his voice.

Now I'm playing back some of the tape I recorded from that visit. The other survivors want to hear his voice.

Allie is listening. They validate her own anger and sadness. She put herself out there. This group gave Allie the confidence to tell the detective her story.

Allie is listening. They validate her own anger and sadness. She put herself out there. This group gave Allie the confidence to tell the detective her story.

Police inaction only feeds that shame. It doesn't take it away. And it all leaves me with more homework to do. I have more questions for the music teacher himself. I haven't contacted Doug Walker in more than a year. I corresponded with him before I published the initial investigation about Anne-Marie and Jeannie, but now there have been many more allegations by many more women.

Police inaction only feeds that shame. It doesn't take it away. And it all leaves me with more homework to do. I have more questions for the music teacher himself. I haven't contacted Doug Walker in more than a year. I corresponded with him before I published the initial investigation about Anne-Marie and Jeannie, but now there have been many more allegations by many more women.

The former teacher needs an opportunity to respond. I start writing down questions, and I send him an email requesting an interview. I wait to hear back. Then I continue my legal research. I Google, look up studies, read law papers, and contact people across the country. But there's a provision in the criminal code that vitiates consent.

The former teacher needs an opportunity to respond. I start writing down questions, and I send him an email requesting an interview. I wait to hear back. Then I continue my legal research. I Google, look up studies, read law papers, and contact people across the country. But there's a provision in the criminal code that vitiates consent.

And I learn more about legal provisions than I ever thought I'd have to. I chat with more academics, former Crown attorneys, legal advocates. I seek out those who know and understand old sexual assault laws and how they're applied to cases involving boy victims or girl victims. This is a dysfunctional area of law.

And I learn more about legal provisions than I ever thought I'd have to. I chat with more academics, former Crown attorneys, legal advocates. I seek out those who know and understand old sexual assault laws and how they're applied to cases involving boy victims or girl victims. This is a dysfunctional area of law.

Then during one of our chats, Anne-Marie remembers the first lawyer she ever spoke to about her case. She asks me to find him.

Then during one of our chats, Anne-Marie remembers the first lawyer she ever spoke to about her case. She asks me to find him.

This was way back, about eight years ago, before she went to the police, before she met me. The Ontario government had just set up a pilot program.

This was way back, about eight years ago, before she went to the police, before she met me. The Ontario government had just set up a pilot program.

The program is free for victims of sexual assault. It's available in several provinces. It provides four hours with a lawyer.

The program is free for victims of sexual assault. It's available in several provinces. It provides four hours with a lawyer.

That's at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario.

That's at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario.

Blair is a big man with a big smile and a warm laugh. I can see how he would have put Anne-Marie at ease. He comes with years of experience at law clinics at two Ontario universities. He hears from many victims, most of them women.

Blair is a big man with a big smile and a warm laugh. I can see how he would have put Anne-Marie at ease. He comes with years of experience at law clinics at two Ontario universities. He hears from many victims, most of them women.

In 1975, Sam found out his teenage daughter was having sexual encounters with her music teacher. Sam told the principal.

In 1975, Sam found out his teenage daughter was having sexual encounters with her music teacher. Sam told the principal.

He helped me start to put it in context. Anne-Marie has come along to the interview with Blair. Yeah, it's like coming full circle. And she comes prepared. Hi, Blair. Hi, Anne-Marie. She's wearing business attire and holds a notepad with her questions. Since she first met Blair, Anne-Marie has learned so much more about the law. Now she almost sounds like a lawyer. She jumps right in.

He helped me start to put it in context. Anne-Marie has come along to the interview with Blair. Yeah, it's like coming full circle. And she comes prepared. Hi, Blair. Hi, Anne-Marie. She's wearing business attire and holds a notepad with her questions. Since she first met Blair, Anne-Marie has learned so much more about the law. Now she almost sounds like a lawyer. She jumps right in.

Sure. But I just wonder, it appears there's a discriminatory application of laws, right? If male victims can see a conviction against a former teacher for sexual assaults, but female victims can't.

Sure. But I just wonder, it appears there's a discriminatory application of laws, right? If male victims can see a conviction against a former teacher for sexual assaults, but female victims can't.

Then he punched the teacher. Former students say Walker left the school.

Then he punched the teacher. Former students say Walker left the school.

I looked to Anne-Marie. Would she go back to the police? Absolutely, yeah. And even after you went through four and a half years and the re-victimization, you still would do that?

I looked to Anne-Marie. Would she go back to the police? Absolutely, yeah. And even after you went through four and a half years and the re-victimization, you still would do that?

It's been several years since Blair Crew first heard Anne-Marie's story. He believed her then. He believes her now. She has so much more information but as far as she's concerned still no justice.

It's been several years since Blair Crew first heard Anne-Marie's story. He believed her then. He believes her now. She has so much more information but as far as she's concerned still no justice.

Right. Before the interview is over, Blair Crew mentions one last thing, another crime that sometimes gets the attention of police and prosecutors.

Right. Before the interview is over, Blair Crew mentions one last thing, another crime that sometimes gets the attention of police and prosecutors.

As the interview wraps up, Anne-Marie and I look at each other. Blair's last comment caught our attention. We're both recalling something that Jeannie has told us. We've kept it to ourselves. I didn't know if or when to bring it up, but I guess we should talk about it now because it seems relevant. Actually, it's Jeannie McKay's story to tell, so I'm going to let her tell it.

As the interview wraps up, Anne-Marie and I look at each other. Blair's last comment caught our attention. We're both recalling something that Jeannie has told us. We've kept it to ourselves. I didn't know if or when to bring it up, but I guess we should talk about it now because it seems relevant. Actually, it's Jeannie McKay's story to tell, so I'm going to let her tell it.

But just a warning, there are going to be some graphic details.

But just a warning, there are going to be some graphic details.

Oh, I'm sorry that my face makes you sad.

Oh, I'm sorry that my face makes you sad.

Jeannie's eyes are damp from the moment the computer links us together. It's still the wee hours on the West Coast in British Columbia. Jeannie hasn't had her morning coffee. She's a teacher and wanted to talk to me before getting ready for her school day. We chat for a few minutes. Then she tells me again what happened to her as a teenager with her band teacher.

Jeannie's eyes are damp from the moment the computer links us together. It's still the wee hours on the West Coast in British Columbia. Jeannie hasn't had her morning coffee. She's a teacher and wanted to talk to me before getting ready for her school day. We chat for a few minutes. Then she tells me again what happened to her as a teenager with her band teacher.

They were outside, lying under a tree.

They were outside, lying under a tree.

Oh, God. They all know Sam recently lost his daughter. She's no longer around to talk about it or appreciate what he did. And it makes the situation even more sad. I see Jeannie leave the screen to grab a Kleenex box and Ali holds her head in her hands. Wow.

Oh, God. They all know Sam recently lost his daughter. She's no longer around to talk about it or appreciate what he did. And it makes the situation even more sad. I see Jeannie leave the screen to grab a Kleenex box and Ali holds her head in her hands. Wow.

These are private, difficult memories about yet another indignity.

These are private, difficult memories about yet another indignity.

and Jeannie says there's a reason she didn't mention the anal penetration when she went to the police decades ago.

and Jeannie says there's a reason she didn't mention the anal penetration when she went to the police decades ago.

The whole issue of crimes against boys versus crimes against girls is preying on Jeannie's mind. She imagines what was on the minds of the men who made the laws and the men who enforced them.

The whole issue of crimes against boys versus crimes against girls is preying on Jeannie's mind. She imagines what was on the minds of the men who made the laws and the men who enforced them.

Despite the historic problems with these old laws, both Jeannie and Anne-Marie want authorities to consider what happened to the survivors was grossly indecent. And like Anne-Marie, Jeannie says she's willing to go back to the police.

Despite the historic problems with these old laws, both Jeannie and Anne-Marie want authorities to consider what happened to the survivors was grossly indecent. And like Anne-Marie, Jeannie says she's willing to go back to the police.

We talk about our dogs to lighten the mood before we say goodbye. Another tough conversation wraps up. Doug Walker has always maintained the sexual encounters with these girls were consensual. I ask him specifically about this latest revelation from Jeannie. He says that never happened. But I have 28 more questions for him, and I have requested an interview.

We talk about our dogs to lighten the mood before we say goodbye. Another tough conversation wraps up. Doug Walker has always maintained the sexual encounters with these girls were consensual. I ask him specifically about this latest revelation from Jeannie. He says that never happened. But I have 28 more questions for him, and I have requested an interview.

There are no dry eyes.

There are no dry eyes.

Walker says he'll talk to me over the phone. We arrange a time. Next time on The Banned Teacher. Anne-Marie is back to work at a new job.

Walker says he'll talk to me over the phone. We arrange a time. Next time on The Banned Teacher. Anne-Marie is back to work at a new job.

Anne-Marie has found other survivors with similar goals. One has a familiar voice from the first season of The Band Played On.

Anne-Marie has found other survivors with similar goals. One has a familiar voice from the first season of The Band Played On.

And Anne-Marie takes another important yet uncomfortable step in her own journey. And then I want to go into the music room.

And Anne-Marie takes another important yet uncomfortable step in her own journey. And then I want to go into the music room.

You've been listening to The Band Teacher, ad-free on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for subscribing. The Band Teacher is investigated, reported, written, and hosted by me, Julie Ireton. Alison Cook is the story and script editor, producer, sound designer, and mixer. Felice Chin is our executive producer and story editor. Eve Saint-Laurent is our legal advisor.

You've been listening to The Band Teacher, ad-free on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for subscribing. The Band Teacher is investigated, reported, written, and hosted by me, Julie Ireton. Alison Cook is the story and script editor, producer, sound designer, and mixer. Felice Chin is our executive producer and story editor. Eve Saint-Laurent is our legal advisor.

Jennifer Chen, Amanda Pfeffer and Jen White provided valuable production advice. Special thanks to the folks at CBC Podcasts for their support. The managing editor of CBC Ottawa is Drake Fenton. If you or someone you know has been sexually abused, community resources can help. Reach out to a trusted person, sexual assault centre or rape crisis centre in your area.

Jennifer Chen, Amanda Pfeffer and Jen White provided valuable production advice. Special thanks to the folks at CBC Podcasts for their support. The managing editor of CBC Ottawa is Drake Fenton. If you or someone you know has been sexually abused, community resources can help. Reach out to a trusted person, sexual assault centre or rape crisis centre in your area.

They all resolve to send him notes and cards, and they do. I don't have a dad anymore. I don't either. I never really did. Oh, my God. I don't know, there's just... That's Ali. She reported the music teacher after a band trip to Montreal in 1987.

They all resolve to send him notes and cards, and they do. I don't have a dad anymore. I don't either. I never really did. Oh, my God. I don't know, there's just... That's Ali. She reported the music teacher after a band trip to Montreal in 1987.

And I was like, there's nothing else to wait for. For decades, Allie thought it was her fault after a 39-year-old teacher had sex with her, a teenage student. She now wants to put the blame where she says it always belonged. It just washed over me that I feel like it's time. Time to go to the police. Because a conviction would make a difference. The banned teacher. I'm Julie Ireton.

And I was like, there's nothing else to wait for. For decades, Allie thought it was her fault after a 39-year-old teacher had sex with her, a teenage student. She now wants to put the blame where she says it always belonged. It just washed over me that I feel like it's time. Time to go to the police. Because a conviction would make a difference. The banned teacher. I'm Julie Ireton.

This is season two of the band Played On. Survivors still crave justice. New laws were enacted in the 1980s. They made it illegal for those in positions of authority, like teachers, to have sexual relations with the young people they're in charge of, their students. It's in Canada's criminal code. And if I'm the only person who falls under the new laws, then I do have a responsibility. I do.

This is season two of the band Played On. Survivors still crave justice. New laws were enacted in the 1980s. They made it illegal for those in positions of authority, like teachers, to have sexual relations with the young people they're in charge of, their students. It's in Canada's criminal code. And if I'm the only person who falls under the new laws, then I do have a responsibility. I do.

And we discover inconsistencies in how police treat male victims versus female victims of historical sexual assault.

And we discover inconsistencies in how police treat male victims versus female victims of historical sexual assault.

Episode 9, If They Were Boys.

Episode 9, If They Were Boys.

Ali has just reported to the police in the Toronto area where she attended high school. It's November 2022.

Ali has just reported to the police in the Toronto area where she attended high school. It's November 2022.

We all gathered at Ali's Toronto home a few months ago in the summer with the cat and the dogs and the survivors. Now she's taken a big step. She's written to the police. Please help to bring this serial predator to justice. Ali has lived with what happened to her for more than three decades.

We all gathered at Ali's Toronto home a few months ago in the summer with the cat and the dogs and the survivors. Now she's taken a big step. She's written to the police. Please help to bring this serial predator to justice. Ali has lived with what happened to her for more than three decades.

In the aftermath, Ali says the administrators slut-shamed her. But she's more eloquent in her words to the police.

In the aftermath, Ali says the administrators slut-shamed her. But she's more eloquent in her words to the police.

Hey, Siobhan. One by one, each woman pops up in a square on my computer screen. Six small boxes. They've become familiar faces to me and to each other. Where are you, Siobhan? I'm at home. They fondly call this group the Blipsters. That's because they're among the music teacher's blips. That's survivor Jeannie McKay in B.C. with her wire-framed glasses, her salt-and-pepper hair.

Hey, Siobhan. One by one, each woman pops up in a square on my computer screen. Six small boxes. They've become familiar faces to me and to each other. Where are you, Siobhan? I'm at home. They fondly call this group the Blipsters. That's because they're among the music teacher's blips. That's survivor Jeannie McKay in B.C. with her wire-framed glasses, her salt-and-pepper hair.

Wow. What did it feel like to write that and then hit send?

Wow. What did it feel like to write that and then hit send?

New laws. I've talked before about the changing landscape of Canada's sexual assault legislation. A series of new laws were put in place in the 1980s. These laws didn't exist when Anne-Marie Robinson and Jeannie McKay say they were assaulted. The old laws took a narrow view on consent. Had the girl gone to bed with the teacher willingly?

New laws. I've talked before about the changing landscape of Canada's sexual assault legislation. A series of new laws were put in place in the 1980s. These laws didn't exist when Anne-Marie Robinson and Jeannie McKay say they were assaulted. The old laws took a narrow view on consent. Had the girl gone to bed with the teacher willingly?

Those laws didn't consider grooming or the power imbalance between teacher and student. or a coach and a player, a doctor and a patient. But in the late 1980s, a new criminal code violation was introduced called sexual exploitation. This is how it reads.

Those laws didn't consider grooming or the power imbalance between teacher and student. or a coach and a player, a doctor and a patient. But in the late 1980s, a new criminal code violation was introduced called sexual exploitation. This is how it reads.

Every person commits an offense who is in a position of trust or authority towards a young person, who is a person with whom the young person is in a relationship of dependency. and who for a sexual purpose touches directly or indirectly with a part of the body or with an object any part of the body of the young person, or invites, counsels, or incites a young person to touch a part of the body.

Every person commits an offense who is in a position of trust or authority towards a young person, who is a person with whom the young person is in a relationship of dependency. and who for a sexual purpose touches directly or indirectly with a part of the body or with an object any part of the body of the young person, or invites, counsels, or incites a young person to touch a part of the body.

And the definition of a young person here is someone under 18. An adult being in a position of power changed the rules. Ali shared the news about going to the police with the other survivors.

And the definition of a young person here is someone under 18. An adult being in a position of power changed the rules. Ali shared the news about going to the police with the other survivors.

Do you wish that, that, um, you had done this 35 years ago? Or are you glad that you're moving forward as an adult, more aware of what the laws are?

Do you wish that, that, um, you had done this 35 years ago? Or are you glad that you're moving forward as an adult, more aware of what the laws are?

Now, Ali will wait to hear back from the police. It's been a difficult few months for Allie, ever since the women gathered at her Toronto home. It dredged up long-buried teenage memories, but it also reminded her of band, of making music. She's back in touch with high school bandmates, and she's thought more about the importance of music in her life.

Now, Ali will wait to hear back from the police. It's been a difficult few months for Allie, ever since the women gathered at her Toronto home. It dredged up long-buried teenage memories, but it also reminded her of band, of making music. She's back in touch with high school bandmates, and she's thought more about the importance of music in her life.

Sitting down at her piano and writing this song has helped.

Sitting down at her piano and writing this song has helped.

And it's a distraction, taking her mind off the waiting. But Ali doesn't have to wait long for a response from the police. Just a week later, I get another call.

And it's a distraction, taking her mind off the waiting. But Ali doesn't have to wait long for a response from the police. Just a week later, I get another call.

Yeah, I can. The police took Ali's complaint seriously. Within a couple days, she was asked to go into a Toronto area station. She gave a formal statement on camera.

Yeah, I can. The police took Ali's complaint seriously. Within a couple days, she was asked to go into a Toronto area station. She gave a formal statement on camera.

It's only been a week since she filed her first report. The detective has just called.

It's only been a week since she filed her first report. The detective has just called.

Doug Walker told Ontario's teachers' regulator the two years of sexual encounters with Jeannie, his teenage student, well, that was just a blip. We now know she wasn't even his first blip. Other girls from other schools, came before Jeannie.

Doug Walker told Ontario's teachers' regulator the two years of sexual encounters with Jeannie, his teenage student, well, that was just a blip. We now know she wasn't even his first blip. Other girls from other schools, came before Jeannie.

Wow. He's spoken to the prosecutor already. I can't tell if it's anxiety or excitement in Ali's voice.

Wow. He's spoken to the prosecutor already. I can't tell if it's anxiety or excitement in Ali's voice.

What do you mean?

What do you mean?

Wrong? How is that possible?

Wrong? How is that possible?

The sexual exploitation law, making it an offense for a person of authority to have a sexual encounter with a person under 18. It turns out the law was drafted in the mid-1980s. But it wasn't officially enacted into law until years later.

The sexual exploitation law, making it an offense for a person of authority to have a sexual encounter with a person under 18. It turns out the law was drafted in the mid-1980s. But it wasn't officially enacted into law until years later.

That was eight months after Ali's sexual encounter with her music teacher. The detective told her there was nothing he could do.

That was eight months after Ali's sexual encounter with her music teacher. The detective told her there was nothing he could do.

She was also thinking about Jeannie and Anne-Marie. They've already been through this with the police.

She was also thinking about Jeannie and Anne-Marie. They've already been through this with the police.

That wasn't all. Ali had reported to Toronto Area Police, where she went to high school. But her encounter happened on a band trip to Montreal, a six-hour drive from home. The detective told her since it happened in Montreal, he didn't actually have jurisdiction.

That wasn't all. Ali had reported to Toronto Area Police, where she went to high school. But her encounter happened on a band trip to Montreal, a six-hour drive from home. The detective told her since it happened in Montreal, he didn't actually have jurisdiction.

Ali's upset and still trying to absorb what the detective told her.

Ali's upset and still trying to absorb what the detective told her.

I don't blame her for feeling upset. It is disturbing, baffling, especially given my previous reporting experience. I spent more than a year investigating crimes against teen boys for the first season of the band played on. In one case, we saw a former high school teacher let out of court in handcuffs. He went to prison for touching boys over their clothing, propositioning them.

I don't blame her for feeling upset. It is disturbing, baffling, especially given my previous reporting experience. I spent more than a year investigating crimes against teen boys for the first season of the band played on. In one case, we saw a former high school teacher let out of court in handcuffs. He went to prison for touching boys over their clothing, propositioning them.

Many of those violations happened in the 1970s and 80s before new sexual assault laws were enacted. This current case took place over the same time period and the women say their teacher raped them. Yet police tell the women there was no law to protect them. Under the law, how could there be such a different approach for boy victims and girl victims? How can there be a double standard in Canada?

Many of those violations happened in the 1970s and 80s before new sexual assault laws were enacted. This current case took place over the same time period and the women say their teacher raped them. Yet police tell the women there was no law to protect them. Under the law, how could there be such a different approach for boy victims and girl victims? How can there be a double standard in Canada?

I need a legal expert to explain, so I go to an academic I've spoken to before. She's in Vancouver.

I need a legal expert to explain, so I go to an academic I've spoken to before. She's in Vancouver.

Okay, I've got the right person. She joins me via video from her office at UBC.

Okay, I've got the right person. She joins me via video from her office at UBC.

No, I wholeheartedly concur.

No, I wholeheartedly concur.

I think it was maybe even the first day I raised my baton and I saw him. It just went, whoa. And my brain instantly flashed on to... And the horror of it all, because by then I was 13 years post the abuse and I all of a sudden had all the power in the room and they were looking at me and I was getting ready to do something powerful and it was more than just music. Teachers have all this power.

I think it was maybe even the first day I raised my baton and I saw him. It just went, whoa. And my brain instantly flashed on to... And the horror of it all, because by then I was 13 years post the abuse and I all of a sudden had all the power in the room and they were looking at me and I was getting ready to do something powerful and it was more than just music. Teachers have all this power.

Our whole job is to get them to do amazing things. That's our superpower. And for some, they're kryptonite. I would be planning my trips thinking, how could he have done this?

Our whole job is to get them to do amazing things. That's our superpower. And for some, they're kryptonite. I would be planning my trips thinking, how could he have done this?

Why is he in my head when this is my band, this is my program? And most of the time it would be my stuff, my initiative, my thinking, my tours. She talks this through with Anne-Marie.

Why is he in my head when this is my band, this is my program? And most of the time it would be my stuff, my initiative, my thinking, my tours. She talks this through with Anne-Marie.

And it traveled with me from house to house. And there was just something, there was something in me that I knew I needed to have it. And at the beginning, it was probably a fond thought, but then it became a, no, you can't get rid of this. You just can't get rid of this. And maybe I was self-flagellating, like maybe I was just, because I was pretty hard on myself. I kept that squash down so hard.

And it traveled with me from house to house. And there was just something, there was something in me that I knew I needed to have it. And at the beginning, it was probably a fond thought, but then it became a, no, you can't get rid of this. You just can't get rid of this. And maybe I was self-flagellating, like maybe I was just, because I was pretty hard on myself. I kept that squash down so hard.

I didn't start healing until I stepped away from teaching band. Right. deep down inside of me, I just couldn't do it anymore. It just, it made me sick. It was, it was making me sick. I kept squashing it.

I didn't start healing until I stepped away from teaching band. Right. deep down inside of me, I just couldn't do it anymore. It just, it made me sick. It was, it was making me sick. I kept squashing it.

I walked behind the group. There were, I don't know, 10 of us that came off that plane. They arrived at Los Angeles International Airport. And walked out to where the bus was waiting at LAX, got on the bus, and there he was. And I froze.

I walked behind the group. There were, I don't know, 10 of us that came off that plane. They arrived at Los Angeles International Airport. And walked out to where the bus was waiting at LAX, got on the bus, and there he was. And I froze.

walker she hadn't seen him in years just stared at him and his hand had come up to shake hands and my hand came halfway up to shake hands and you know things are going through your head like what's he doing here is is he going to try something all that it's just flashing through your head it you know, light speed. And I just put my hand down and someone behind me said, come on, move on.

walker she hadn't seen him in years just stared at him and his hand had come up to shake hands and my hand came halfway up to shake hands and you know things are going through your head like what's he doing here is is he going to try something all that it's just flashing through your head it you know, light speed. And I just put my hand down and someone behind me said, come on, move on.

And I just sort of blinked and shoved right past. I went right to the back row. Thank God it was empty. I couldn't breathe. I just trembled and trembled. I couldn't see. I couldn't see anything. I knew they were talking. The world was sort of black. And

And I just sort of blinked and shoved right past. I went right to the back row. Thank God it was empty. I couldn't breathe. I just trembled and trembled. I couldn't see. I couldn't see anything. I knew they were talking. The world was sort of black. And

Eventually, the tour hostess, she sat down beside me, hello, and I said, I didn't even say hello, I said, there's a guy on this bus, he molested me in high school, like something words to that effect. He shouldn't be here, he shouldn't be around students, you can't have him around kids. She goes, okay, can you point out which one? And I pointed out which one. She said, what do you want me to do?

Eventually, the tour hostess, she sat down beside me, hello, and I said, I didn't even say hello, I said, there's a guy on this bus, he molested me in high school, like something words to that effect. He shouldn't be here, he shouldn't be around students, you can't have him around kids. She goes, okay, can you point out which one? And I pointed out which one. She said, what do you want me to do?

And I said, Just let me out here. I'll be fine. I'll get back to the airport in time. I have my ticket. And they let me out at that place, that theater with all the stars, hands in concrete. They let me out there.

And I said, Just let me out here. I'll be fine. I'll get back to the airport in time. I have my ticket. And they let me out at that place, that theater with all the stars, hands in concrete. They let me out there.

That was it. I sat in the sun, went for walks, swam a little bit, got back on the plane, came home, and knew I had to do something. If that could affect me 15 years later, I knew that if it did that to me, perfectly competent adult, I had to do something about it. But what? I knew he was still at it. Still teaching high school students. I knew he was.

That was it. I sat in the sun, went for walks, swam a little bit, got back on the plane, came home, and knew I had to do something. If that could affect me 15 years later, I knew that if it did that to me, perfectly competent adult, I had to do something about it. But what? I knew he was still at it. Still teaching high school students. I knew he was.

He was still getting, you know, kids to go to Disneyland with him.

He was still getting, you know, kids to go to Disneyland with him.

And so she took me into, it said, a soft room. So this was the kind interview room and it had couches. And I remember looking around, I think there was a camera in the ceiling. And so she just started asking me the questions in a very quiet way.

And so she took me into, it said, a soft room. So this was the kind interview room and it had couches. And I remember looking around, I think there was a camera in the ceiling. And so she just started asking me the questions in a very quiet way.

I peeled off the plastic and there it was.

I peeled off the plastic and there it was.

They talked with the superintendent. They talked with the librarian to get the yearbooks.

They talked with the superintendent. They talked with the librarian to get the yearbooks.

There was a lot of smoke, but no evidence for them to feel that they could move forward, other than my word, which should be good enough. And that's where it all falls apart for so many women. And so nothing happened.

There was a lot of smoke, but no evidence for them to feel that they could move forward, other than my word, which should be good enough. And that's where it all falls apart for so many women. And so nothing happened.

We can't do anything for you under those laws. It feels like we've been here before. What I recall is that they said the laws back when I was that age, the laws were different. They'd been changed since.

We can't do anything for you under those laws. It feels like we've been here before. What I recall is that they said the laws back when I was that age, the laws were different. They'd been changed since.

But the laws essentially made it that I was almost property of my father. And if my father thought I'd been wronged, he would have to bring charges. But my father was dead and couldn't bring charges. Ironic that even my mother couldn't.

But the laws essentially made it that I was almost property of my father. And if my father thought I'd been wronged, he would have to bring charges. But my father was dead and couldn't bring charges. Ironic that even my mother couldn't.

I just kept going because I needed to. I just wanted him away from children. So much of this has come just by me bluntly keeping going, right? And being fortunate enough to be so entitled that I can have psychiatric care when I need it. I can have a good job and with good benefits. And I've made it past his victimization of me when so many don't. And I've had the ability to just keep going.

I just kept going because I needed to. I just wanted him away from children. So much of this has come just by me bluntly keeping going, right? And being fortunate enough to be so entitled that I can have psychiatric care when I need it. I can have a good job and with good benefits. And I've made it past his victimization of me when so many don't. And I've had the ability to just keep going.

I had to do something, and I was meant to be his blip.

I had to do something, and I was meant to be his blip.

I thought they had the power to advertise this predator across the land, but they barely had the power to get rid of him. It took forever to just get him to talk.

I thought they had the power to advertise this predator across the land, but they barely had the power to get rid of him. It took forever to just get him to talk.

I attended Markham District High School where Mr. Walker taught me music. Today I write with a sense of deep sorrow at the loss of my youth and my trust. As a mother, I shudder at the callousness of a system that would pass this man from school to school. In high school, Doug Walker's actions led me towards adulthood before I had even experienced adolescence.

I attended Markham District High School where Mr. Walker taught me music. Today I write with a sense of deep sorrow at the loss of my youth and my trust. As a mother, I shudder at the callousness of a system that would pass this man from school to school. In high school, Doug Walker's actions led me towards adulthood before I had even experienced adolescence.

I gave him all of my innocent first love and adoration, and he took everything. He took away my youth and my trust. Walker never used physical force. He used the force of his position of power over me. Every day I'm embarrassed at how I was taken in by this twisted man. Doug Walker has tainted my deep love of music. Sometimes I wish I was deaf.

I gave him all of my innocent first love and adoration, and he took everything. He took away my youth and my trust. Walker never used physical force. He used the force of his position of power over me. Every day I'm embarrassed at how I was taken in by this twisted man. Doug Walker has tainted my deep love of music. Sometimes I wish I was deaf.

You know, all around the world, every day, something big falls on the shoulders of someone and they do it because they know they have to.

You know, all around the world, every day, something big falls on the shoulders of someone and they do it because they know they have to.

Two days before it was to happen, they phoned and said, you don't have to come. He's agreed to stop teaching. That was it. It was so anticlimactic.

Two days before it was to happen, they phoned and said, you don't have to come. He's agreed to stop teaching. That was it. It was so anticlimactic.

And if it wasn't for this blip, I would still be teaching. And so I'm the blip. Just to say, hey buddy, we're not blips.

And if it wasn't for this blip, I would still be teaching. And so I'm the blip. Just to say, hey buddy, we're not blips.

I haven't even thought about that today. I've been so busy. I'm good.

I haven't even thought about that today. I've been so busy. I'm good.

But I've never seen myself that way. I've just seen myself as having to fight this fight and fight it again. And just because it's right, it's right. It's the thing to do. And... And no one was able to do it. And so it fell to me. And, you know, all around the world, every day, something big falls on the shoulders of someone and they do it because they know they have to.

But I've never seen myself that way. I've just seen myself as having to fight this fight and fight it again. And just because it's right, it's right. It's the thing to do. And... And no one was able to do it. And so it fell to me. And, you know, all around the world, every day, something big falls on the shoulders of someone and they do it because they know they have to.

And Anne-Marie, you've fought for all these years, fought yourself first. Like, why didn't I do something? And that's so sad because it It wasn't, like I said the first time, it wasn't your fault. I'm so sorry you felt that way. I know that I have this sister that I will always have as a sister, but I don't know what that means yet. I know that our lives continue on the way our lives continue.

And Anne-Marie, you've fought for all these years, fought yourself first. Like, why didn't I do something? And that's so sad because it It wasn't, like I said the first time, it wasn't your fault. I'm so sorry you felt that way. I know that I have this sister that I will always have as a sister, but I don't know what that means yet. I know that our lives continue on the way our lives continue.

I just know that you exist and you're part of me now.

I just know that you exist and you're part of me now.

I want to hear from the kids right after me because I want to let them know that they were really seriously wronged by the system. I want to hear from the girl whose dad punched him.

I want to hear from the kids right after me because I want to let them know that they were really seriously wronged by the system. I want to hear from the girl whose dad punched him.

I was meant to be his blip. Blip the conqueror.

I was meant to be his blip. Blip the conqueror.

Emery, I'm not sure if I ever told you this. When I first got the message that you were looking for me, and here's her name and here's her phone number, I just lost it. I... I read it and I, you know, the typical movie thing where your knees give out and I just sat right down on the stairs. I just sat right down and started sobbing.

Emery, I'm not sure if I ever told you this. When I first got the message that you were looking for me, and here's her name and here's her phone number, I just lost it. I... I read it and I, you know, the typical movie thing where your knees give out and I just sat right down on the stairs. I just sat right down and started sobbing.

The world got huge. And I said, CBC's got this. It's Quintico National. I said, we're going to get them all. And I was thrilled. I was thrilled and horrified and saddened. The whole oyster. And you know the Grinch story where at the end his heart sort of busts out of the x-ray?

The world got huge. And I said, CBC's got this. It's Quintico National. I said, we're going to get them all. And I was thrilled. I was thrilled and horrified and saddened. The whole oyster. And you know the Grinch story where at the end his heart sort of busts out of the x-ray?

It's like my heart and mind just bust open for all these girls who I know are going to be better now because I'm going to be able to help them. I'm going to be able to push this forward. And I'm going to be able to let them know that it's okay to talk about it. And I know how to find them some help if they need it.

It's like my heart and mind just bust open for all these girls who I know are going to be better now because I'm going to be able to help them. I'm going to be able to push this forward. And I'm going to be able to let them know that it's okay to talk about it. And I know how to find them some help if they need it.

It's just the formal introduction of Ocean, the Portuguese water dog. Yeah, she's smart, but she's chicken. She won't swim.

It's just the formal introduction of Ocean, the Portuguese water dog. Yeah, she's smart, but she's chicken. She won't swim.

Dad loved music and he had all the old 78s. Our whole family was very musical. Grandma, on my dad's side, played piano and organ in church and sang, of course. And dad was raised in that tradition and sang. And so ever since I was young, I was singing in church and joined the church choirs.

Dad loved music and he had all the old 78s. Our whole family was very musical. Grandma, on my dad's side, played piano and organ in church and sang, of course. And dad was raised in that tradition and sang. And so ever since I was young, I was singing in church and joined the church choirs.

There weren't more. That was, that was just the intercourse.

There weren't more. That was, that was just the intercourse.

I was okay looking. I wasn't dressed extra specially beautifully. I was pretty geeky looking at the start and probably still by the end. I was just an average kid.

I was okay looking. I wasn't dressed extra specially beautifully. I was pretty geeky looking at the start and probably still by the end. I was just an average kid.

I think he was sort of grooming everybody in a way. He was grooming them into his circle. He would have been grooming everybody into his crowd.

I think he was sort of grooming everybody in a way. He was grooming them into his circle. He would have been grooming everybody into his crowd.

We would all go out for dinner between school and band practice. We would all have drinks. He would buy us drinks like crazy, like crazy. I remember, you know, all the childish drinks, the really sweet wines, the Southern Comfort, the Bailey's, the Singapore Sling kind of things. Nothing really sophisticated at all.

We would all go out for dinner between school and band practice. We would all have drinks. He would buy us drinks like crazy, like crazy. I remember, you know, all the childish drinks, the really sweet wines, the Southern Comfort, the Bailey's, the Singapore Sling kind of things. Nothing really sophisticated at all.

And so I would just make a little notch, tiny little blue pen notch and One, two, three, four, five. One, two, three, four, five. And I have all these little hash marks. So yeah, the desk is a real number. It was a real desk and a wooden top. And I would do my homework on it. That's the desk they got me, mom and dad got me from my bedroom. When she was 16. I came up with a very real ballpark of

And so I would just make a little notch, tiny little blue pen notch and One, two, three, four, five. One, two, three, four, five. And I have all these little hash marks. So yeah, the desk is a real number. It was a real desk and a wooden top. And I would do my homework on it. That's the desk they got me, mom and dad got me from my bedroom. When she was 16. I came up with a very real ballpark of

And he'd be drinking alongside of us, and we'd all be rip-roaring and driving, of course, back to band practice.

And he'd be drinking alongside of us, and we'd all be rip-roaring and driving, of course, back to band practice.

He would then be sharing the rude literature in the back in the band room, like the storage room.

He would then be sharing the rude literature in the back in the band room, like the storage room.

And it was just really, really risque. And so the inner circles got smaller and smaller until he was certain he could make moves on people. And he'd be very, very touchy-feely, huggy with all the girls and all buddy-buddy with the guys.

And it was just really, really risque. And so the inner circles got smaller and smaller until he was certain he could make moves on people. And he'd be very, very touchy-feely, huggy with all the girls and all buddy-buddy with the guys.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it was just so exciting. It was just so grown up. And we were so young. It was so naive, so very innocent. And it was, you look back and you realize that's so inappropriate. And at the time it was just so cool. He was able to really twist your thoughts.

And it was just so exciting. It was just so grown up. And we were so young. It was so naive, so very innocent. And it was, you look back and you realize that's so inappropriate. And at the time it was just so cool. He was able to really twist your thoughts.

I remember realizing that if I wanted that, it was possible. And so, yeah, that happened. Mm-hmm.

I remember realizing that if I wanted that, it was possible. And so, yeah, that happened. Mm-hmm.

And we went parking in his car down, I think it was as the waterfront area was being developed. And we ended up making out in his back seat. And that's when it happened the very first time. Yeah. Yeah. What a, what a hideous human to take advantage because there I was a young, you know, hormonal kid.

And we went parking in his car down, I think it was as the waterfront area was being developed. And we ended up making out in his back seat. And that's when it happened the very first time. Yeah. Yeah. What a, what a hideous human to take advantage because there I was a young, you know, hormonal kid.

He would control people with absolute sarcasm. And it turned out, sadly, it turns out that he was controlling my brother that way too, to try and prevent him from telling anybody. And I didn't really learn much about this until recently.

He would control people with absolute sarcasm. And it turned out, sadly, it turns out that he was controlling my brother that way too, to try and prevent him from telling anybody. And I didn't really learn much about this until recently.

It's creepy. It's really creepy. Yeah. I had a circle of people that I hung with that I was friends with. But I didn't have a bosom buddy by any stretch. Didn't have a boyfriend. Didn't have those kinds of relationships that... That would have maybe made it harder for him to get to me because we would have talked about it and maybe a parent would have found out.

It's creepy. It's really creepy. Yeah. I had a circle of people that I hung with that I was friends with. But I didn't have a bosom buddy by any stretch. Didn't have a boyfriend. Didn't have those kinds of relationships that... That would have maybe made it harder for him to get to me because we would have talked about it and maybe a parent would have found out.

I remember at one point him saying something about, oh, so-and-so is on the pill. You could ask her about where you could go for that. Yeah. And so how would he know that if he hasn't already been working with her? And yeah.

I remember at one point him saying something about, oh, so-and-so is on the pill. You could ask her about where you could go for that. Yeah. And so how would he know that if he hasn't already been working with her? And yeah.

I wasn't ashamed in high school. I was secret. I felt great because I was in the in crowd and I was doing cool things, really cool things. Like there were amazing musical experiences and times and trips and joy and happiness and laughs.

I wasn't ashamed in high school. I was secret. I felt great because I was in the in crowd and I was doing cool things, really cool things. Like there were amazing musical experiences and times and trips and joy and happiness and laughs.

But... The shame didn't really come until shortly after when I started realizing how wrong it was.

But... The shame didn't really come until shortly after when I started realizing how wrong it was.

It really played into my brain when my dad became ill with cancer. Because once we found out that it was terminal, all of a sudden, my youthful understanding of religion became, dad's going to find out. When he dies, he's going to know everything, and I'm going to go to hell. And that began actually a 40-year fear of dying and going to hell because dad would find out.

It really played into my brain when my dad became ill with cancer. Because once we found out that it was terminal, all of a sudden, my youthful understanding of religion became, dad's going to find out. When he dies, he's going to know everything, and I'm going to go to hell. And that began actually a 40-year fear of dying and going to hell because dad would find out.

probably 150 ish times for oral sex office office office office back music room um car parking lot in the dawn valley we'd go parking I knew that I couldn't keep records, really. I couldn't have a diary. I couldn't talk about it to anybody. And probably he was saying stuff like that too. And I still had the desk 20 years later because it was a solid desk.

probably 150 ish times for oral sex office office office office back music room um car parking lot in the dawn valley we'd go parking I knew that I couldn't keep records, really. I couldn't have a diary. I couldn't talk about it to anybody. And probably he was saying stuff like that too. And I still had the desk 20 years later because it was a solid desk.

It wasn't even something I unpacked until I started getting professional help a year ago when this all started up again. And I think in the second session I had with her, we were talking about my religious beliefs at the time and how that impacted my day-to-day thoughts.

It wasn't even something I unpacked until I started getting professional help a year ago when this all started up again. And I think in the second session I had with her, we were talking about my religious beliefs at the time and how that impacted my day-to-day thoughts.

squashed it down into my psyche. And at night I would wake up sweating, thinking I was going to die. And I would wake up just in a panic. And the whole death thing was just some of that, you know, PTSD that I never knew about because I never put it together. And look at Anne-Marie. She's always felt sad that someone came after her because she felt like she hadn't done enough.

squashed it down into my psyche. And at night I would wake up sweating, thinking I was going to die. And I would wake up just in a panic. And the whole death thing was just some of that, you know, PTSD that I never knew about because I never put it together. And look at Anne-Marie. She's always felt sad that someone came after her because she felt like she hadn't done enough.

And that's heartbreaking because that's not her shame. That's not her guilt. It's all his.

And that's heartbreaking because that's not her shame. That's not her guilt. It's all his.

I felt validated because my story wasn't, I wasn't alone in the world anymore.

I felt validated because my story wasn't, I wasn't alone in the world anymore.