Jeff Horing

So it's not always obvious.

And then a phenomenal tech team that goes with it.

This is a world in the last 10 years where product

really drives outcomes.

And you've had folks on your show that talk about happiness and product satisfaction, things of that nature.

Those five things.

Do you list them once more just so I make sure I have them?

It's big ROI, big ASP, time to value CEO and tech and management team that goes behind that tech.

That's my five.

I think Wiz might be the end of.

Would that check all five?

Maybe Monday had a bunch of that too.

But to get the time to value and the ASP is really rare.

I think for those companies, 15 customers that are referenceable is sort of a magic number for inflecting on growth.

So the challenge with those companies is they're very hard to sell those products.

It's a lot of missionary selling early on.

So you can't really scale your sales organization until you have a certain number of referenceable customers that you could lean on.

And if every sales guy is pointing to the same reference site, that customer gets a little annoyed after a while.

So you're constrained by that.

Around 15, not only do you know the product is really pretty solid, but you also have an ability to start to think about supply constraints to scaling, not demand constraints to scaling.