Jen Affleck
Appearances
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
And then we'll get into the show a little bit. I've really been kind of fascinated by you guys, if that's okay, if that's how it sounds good with you guys.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
What about you, Zach? How did you feel about her enthusiasm for the show?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Just as an aside, was it an option for you to do the show by yourself or was the show saying, hey, we only want couples and it's either the two of you or none of you?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
I want to unpack season one a little bit with the two of you. Because if Whitney was villain number one, you were definitely villain number two. Here's the crazy thing.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
I'm sure you felt that. I felt that way. Either way, you were not liked. I certainly know the feeling. So, you know, you're not alone in that. But, you know, just to be totally honest, you know, what I do love about this show is that, you know, again, it really gets into the weeds about relationships.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
It really, it unpacks a lot of very relatable issues that married couples have to deal with, whether it's religious trauma, whether it's just one person in the relationship wanting one thing and the other person not, like whether you want to go on the show or not. But there were some moments
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
things on season one that just, it was hard to watch in terms of you came across as a husband who seemed to only think of his own needs, you know, whether it was medical school, whether it was your gambling problem, it gave a lot of toxic masculinity, you know, if you will. And so for one, I'd love to just hear from your point of view, what you felt was
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
maybe not fairly portrayed or accurate, but then I'd like to get into what you felt was accurate. And then I'd love to maybe unpack what changes you guys have made as a couple and more specifically you as a husband and man.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Well, we'll ask you now, but like, but yeah, I mean, you're right. Cause to that end, you know, what I really love about this particular show going deeper is the ability to get more of the context to, to dive deeper, you know, into these relationships and you guys as characters, it's like a blessing and a curse. This show is fantastic.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Was there a savings or a nest egg or a fund that was allocated for medical school
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
I don't know how you feel about it, Zach, but it's my favorite show on TV. I'm warming up to it. You women give so much of your lives. You're so vulnerable. I think as fans of reality TV, and I say this as someone who's been on it before,
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
you know, it's, and we do, we, we, we go on the show, especially our reality recap episodes, and we watch these shows and we snark and we, we criticize and we make fun. And that's kind of part of the gig. You know, it's like, I'm a sports fan too, right? Like part of being a sports fan is short for fanatic.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
So we watch this stuff so that we can talk about it with our friends and break it down and talk shit and get into it. But when it comes to reality TV, You know, I think we sometimes forget about the people who are behind the cameras. And, you know, certainly there's an edit and things like that.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
But the blessing, what we get to do here in the Viola Files and going deeper is the opportunity to get to know the people and understand, you know, a little more context about what we are watching on these shows. And so I thank you guys for coming and showing up because clearly you guys have been a couple that's been highly scrutinized in the first two seasons. And, and, Clearly, it's been a lot.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Jen, forgive me if this is inaccurate, and I think you shared last time you were here a little bit about your background, but can you remind the audience a little bit more about your childhood?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
So I first would like to start with just Jen. Like, how are you doing mentally? You had to leave season two. I don't know where we are in terms of of coming back. And I imagine you probably can't answer that anyway. So I'm not going to press you. But as we sit here today, how is your mental health and how are you doing with your pregnancy?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
It seems like you guys have done a lot of work in terms of mending your relationship trauma and hurt that maybe you two have caused each other. I'd love to learn a little bit about what that work looks like and what specifically you guys have been doing to try to save your marriage.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
And by one of us, she means it's always me.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
And it's not worth it. I think as men, we are, you know, that's the language you used, um, pursuer. I think men, you know, that inherent fix it mentality, you know, a little bit more of the logical brain, you know, it's just like, well, that makes no fucking sense. And I want to get to the bottom of it right now.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Yeah, it is. It is something that's really helped. But it's always accurate, right? Because like the way our therapist described it is like once you're arguing for five minutes, you're not arguing from a place of an emotionally regulated adult. You're arguing from the place of whatever child is. that's inside you, whatever trauma you're experiencing. And you're not trying to communicate.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
You're trying to win. You're not trying to be happy. You're trying to be right. And it usually takes that time out, which almost seems silly when, you know, when you're, when our therapist first described, it's like, really, really time out? Really? You want me to really, okay. But it does, it works. You, you calm down and then you start,
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
And like you said, you approach it from a place of coming together, of building back that connection. I mean, I remember, you know, it wasn't until my 40s I learned that lesson. So imagine all the relationships I've had and arguments I've had with past partners and girlfriends where I was like, man, that could have been really useful. You know, so yeah, it's...
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
how did you guys decide as a couple, um, and what ultimately led to the decision for you guys to take a leave of absence? I don't know if that's what it's called from the show, but basically leave the show and at least, at least for the time being, put a pause on your being a part of mom talk in Mormon lives.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Well, at this point, you're married, so it's a bit of a gray area, right? For sure. There's a lot of gray areas. In modern times, there's... It's like, is it our money? Is it your money?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
It's just like, whether it's my money or you earned it whenever and you think you're spending yours, but when you're married, there's the expectation that you will be communicating, I guess, essentially all expenses. I mean, Natalie makes her own money, right? And she's allowed to do what she wants, but every once in a while, I'll be like, oh, that's a new purse.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
That's, wow, where'd that show up from? Huh, cool. I've had this for years.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Truly forever. It's an antique. This is an investment.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
This is fake designer. Especially when both people in the relationship make their own money and you also want to maintain a little bit of independence, even in a marriage. And I know we do, right? You know, but I'm guessing, correct me if I'm wrong, you know, for us, it's more about just like making sure we're on the same page, you know?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
She doesn't need my permission, nor do I need her permission to spend money. But we just want to make sure that we're doing more things together than apart. And regardless of whose money it was, I am assuming, and correct me if I'm wrong, when it comes to gambling, we are aware of just how dangerous it can be. I'm assuming you are aware of that.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
And there's all these stories about people ruining their lives. It is an addiction. And so... Yeah, I'm guessing that's kind of maybe where that those feelings came from.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
You know what I'm saying? It makes a ton of sense. You're not bonding over gambling. You're bonding over communicating in boundaries and respecting each other's boundaries and doing things together. Yeah, exactly. And just agreeing because like that is a marriage.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Zach, I'd love for you to just think back about going into season one and then think about where you're at now with all the work you two as a couple. And I'd love to know what you think your role as a husband is today versus what you thought your role as a husband is prior to all the work you guys have done as a couple.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Awesome. Yeah. Um, do you feel like, you know, and thanks for answering that question. Cause like as a fan of reality TV, it's, you know, it's, it's, I think it's enjoyed by everyone, but it's, it's, I think, you know, there's a little bit more women viewers than male viewers. And I think, You know, I don't know if it's just the reality of men.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
You know, maybe there's some how men are portrayed on the show. But, you know, it is sometimes frustrating. Like, you know, like everyone else, I'm the furthest from a perfect person, have all my flaws, you know, and relationships outside of relationships. But, like, it is sometimes frustrating watching these shows where it seems like some of the men on these shows, like,
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
have like just like expect the bare minimum from themselves where it's just like you know I sometimes when I talk about these shows I feel like I'm coming from a place of like thinking I'm better than these guys but like some of the guys it's just like what the fuck are you guys doing you know and it's
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
But now that you've done some of this work, do you see yourself wanting to be a vehicle for change when it comes to other men in your community, your friends? Your wife mentioned how loyal you are and you seem like you have a good group of guy friends, but I have to assume...
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
that some of the men in your community, or even some of the men who are also on the show, um, have a lot of work to do themselves.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Um, and how do you plan on, you know, obviously you're going on your journey and I'm sure that's probably your primary focus right now, but do you see yourself wanting to be an example of, of, of positive change and encouraging other men in your community to follow some of the work you've been doing?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
It's been fun getting to know you and, you know, a lot of the women, especially season two, came at you for what they claimed was you being dishonest. You know, there's the whole Ben Affleck of it all and yada yada. And, you know, I said this to, I think, Jessie when she was here, but you seem more or less harmless, you know? Yeah.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Not that any lying or embellishing is okay, but you mentioned people pleasing. It seems like sometimes your fibbing comes from a place of desiring acceptance.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
I don't want to go back to like the tough parts in your relationships, but there were obviously, and Zach has owned up to a lot of things he's done, but there were, you know, things that you said about your husband that maybe not all of it was even accurate, but like, what are, what are some things that maybe you got wrong when it came to how you talked about your husband?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
And also, do you feel like you were in the spirit of people pleasing and Do you feel like some of the other women were able to convince you that your husband was a certain way or did certain things that you agreed to or said that ultimately wasn't true?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Jen and Zach, welcome to the Vile Files.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Other than the Chippendale, where it sounds like maybe you knew a little bit more than you let on, and Demi and Jesse acknowledged that they said, hey, we're not going to tell you everything, and there's a little bit of back and forth. It was really more you being accused, right? It wasn't clear that you were lying a lot. I want to be clear.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
It wasn't like a bunch of like, oh, Jen's lying all the time.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
You're being accused of it constantly by Demi, mostly. Jesse seems to be her partner in crime, but it really seems to be Demi Which would make sense.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Well, I mean, well, I don't, to be honest, we're all kind of confused. We have the opportunity to talk to Michaela, Macy, Jesse, Layla, Miranda, and Demi. I think it's kind of important just that we ask because everyone's kind of involved.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Thanks for having us. Well, welcome back, Jen.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
When you say push boundaries, boundaries in her marriage?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Well, I think partly it's just because it's obviously such a serious conversation and it's just like.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
When was that timeline? This is after the filming?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
I think she says that you're spreading lies about her marriage and her reputation. I think she wanted to keep you quiet, but she claims that you're lying.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Well, do you think we'll have an opportunity maybe in season three or at some point, you guys keep mentioning receipts. Will the audience get a chance to see some of these receipts?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Yeah. I want to take in one more question just because I think it's very relatable. Um, you found out you were pregnant in season two and obviously your initial reaction was, wasn't what a lot of women feel is that excitement. You know, you felt that sphere. Um, now and I've been open about our own fertility struggles. Um, and obviously, um,
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
I imagine that was a very complicated feeling that you had because I'm assuming we're all told this is a blessing, this is amazing. You obviously have wonderful children already and you love being parents. How did you deal with those complicated feelings of feeling that fear initially at a time where other times you think you're supposed to feel another way?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Well, that was a very beautiful way to end. I can't thank you guys enough for joining us. And I think you guys have been a great example of how a marriage, like you said, can have its ups and downs and some pretty low lows. And if you want to choose to wake up and still choose each other, that there's a path forward if you guys want to do that.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
And Zach, I just want to say, keep working on yourself. It's nice to see that growth for someone who... maybe once was the most hated man in America. I'm glad that you didn't quit on yourself and quit on your marriage and quit on your wife.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
And I challenge you to keep looking in the mirror and finding ways to grow and be a better man, because I do think the world, especially on TV, needs better examples of how men should be both to themselves, to their community and to their partners. So thanks for thanks for showing up today and just keep doing what you guys are doing.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Thank you guys for listening. We'll see you back tomorrow.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Okay, we're very stoked to have you. So I'm all about upfront expectations, kind of like set the stage of what we can expect this interview. Watching season two, obviously... You didn't finish season two. But I was really taken back by your relationship and specifically you, Zach. And so I was really just kind of fascinated with the relationship.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
I want to unpack all of this, but I do want to rewind a little bit and just kind of like start at the beginning and like, how did you guys meet for one? I'd love to hear that quick story. And then I would love to know how,
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
how you guys decided as a couple to be a part of MomTalk and specifically Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, because I see the draw for you and the MomTalk community and all the influencers, but you seem, like the perception is you were never on board. You seem incredibly uncomfortable with this whole thing.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
And I'm just wondering as a couple, how did you even agree in the first place to be a part of it?
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
You guys have been through a lot as a family, both you two with the show and the relationships with the women, your extended families. There's a lot there. So I would love to focus a lot of this conversation and just kind of getting to know you two as people. and your relationship. I want to talk about, Zach, your growth, or at least what I perceive to be some growth on your part.
The Viall Files
E941 – Going Deeper with Jen and Zac Affleck
Most of my buddies were like three months. Side conversation. Maybe it's my ignorance, but I thought missions for LDS was primarily for young men. But I didn't realize women also go on missions. Or is it different than the missions you go on?