Jerry Wise

Our fantasies. We're still children. I want the parent to love me. I want them to accept me. I want them to take care of my needs. I've always wanted a parent who would care. And I'm not ready to give up that fantasy. Oh, man. And if I could help someone give up those fantasies, They'll grow like nobody's business. Really? Oh, they just go.

Our fantasies. We're still children. I want the parent to love me. I want them to accept me. I want them to take care of my needs. I've always wanted a parent who would care. And I'm not ready to give up that fantasy. Oh, man. And if I could help someone give up those fantasies, They'll grow like nobody's business. Really? Oh, they just go.

It's never too late to have a happy childhood. So let's start now.

It's never too late to have a happy childhood. So let's start now.

That's part of it. Yes. The trance and what we've learned is normal. And then there's the fantasy of when you don't get it growing up, then you will always be looking for it. I want you to come to me and we work out me helping you to stop looking for it.

That's part of it. Yes. The trance and what we've learned is normal. And then there's the fantasy of when you don't get it growing up, then you will always be looking for it. I want you to come to me and we work out me helping you to stop looking for it.

Beautiful childhood. My parents love me. They need to treat me right. Maybe someday they'll accept me. Maybe it's not. It's a fantasy. It is a fantasy. And fantasies mess up adulthood. Goals don't mess up adulthood, but fantasies do. And emotional fantasies. Sure, sure. And there's creativity and fantasies and things. But this fantasy of I'm going to have a happy childhood.

Beautiful childhood. My parents love me. They need to treat me right. Maybe someday they'll accept me. Maybe it's not. It's a fantasy. It is a fantasy. And fantasies mess up adulthood. Goals don't mess up adulthood, but fantasies do. And emotional fantasies. Sure, sure. And there's creativity and fantasies and things. But this fantasy of I'm going to have a happy childhood.

I'm trying to have a happy childhood. But every time I go back at Christmas time or the holiday time, it always ends up being a mess.

I'm trying to have a happy childhood. But every time I go back at Christmas time or the holiday time, it always ends up being a mess.

And they judge me and they do the same thing. I try to be nicer and I bring more food or I bring the kids or whatever they're trying to do to get this so that their parents will one day go, you are okay.

And they judge me and they do the same thing. I try to be nicer and I bring more food or I bring the kids or whatever they're trying to do to get this so that their parents will one day go, you are okay.

When does parenting end?

When does parenting end?

I hope. Aren't you going to be an adult?

I hope. Aren't you going to be an adult?

Adults don't need a parent.

Adults don't need a parent.

Adults may wish or want to have mothers and fathers. I'm not saying break up your whole family because you turned 18. I'm talking about parenting. Parenting is parent to child, not parent to adult. Of course, there are exceptions. Of course, there are people with disabilities. I understand there's all kinds of variations. But generally, if I tell people, I go, and what...

Adults may wish or want to have mothers and fathers. I'm not saying break up your whole family because you turned 18. I'm talking about parenting. Parenting is parent to child, not parent to adult. Of course, there are exceptions. Of course, there are people with disabilities. I understand there's all kinds of variations. But generally, if I tell people, I go, and what...

What do you need your parent to do? Well, I need them to treat me right. And I'm going, why do you need to treat them? Why do you need them to treat you better? Why? Well, I'll never be happy if I. There you are. You've just hooked together. You'll never be happy unless this fantasy comes true. And I can already tell you it's not going to come true because it's been going on for 35 years.

What do you need your parent to do? Well, I need them to treat me right. And I'm going, why do you need to treat them? Why do you need them to treat you better? Why? Well, I'll never be happy if I. There you are. You've just hooked together. You'll never be happy unless this fantasy comes true. And I can already tell you it's not going to come true because it's been going on for 35 years.

And I doubt if your parents are going to just one day go... You know, could miracles happen? Of course miracles can happen, but I'm not in the miracle business. So if they do, they do.

And I doubt if your parents are going to just one day go... You know, could miracles happen? Of course miracles can happen, but I'm not in the miracle business. So if they do, they do.

Right. Well, that's because then your self won't develop. You are living a pseudo self, waiting on them to give you a self by them going, you're wonderful and we love you. And the thing is, the same is true with if parents have caused trauma, Once you become an adult, they can no longer fix that for you ever. They could say, I'm sorry. They can be remorseful.

Right. Well, that's because then your self won't develop. You are living a pseudo self, waiting on them to give you a self by them going, you're wonderful and we love you. And the thing is, the same is true with if parents have caused trauma, Once you become an adult, they can no longer fix that for you ever. They could say, I'm sorry. They can be remorseful.

But I keep telling clients or coaching people, they can't fix it. This is now yours to fix. whatever they did is now yours to fix, not theirs to fix.

But I keep telling clients or coaching people, they can't fix it. This is now yours to fix. whatever they did is now yours to fix, not theirs to fix.

Exactly. How does that fix it? Right. And so they always go back, I'm going to confront them and tell them, and you're just going to get caught up in the system even deeper. Really? You're going to go down in the quicksand even more if you go do that. And I always tell people the time to confront people is when you don't need to. If you need to, you're probably out of sync. Really? Yeah.

Exactly. How does that fix it? Right. And so they always go back, I'm going to confront them and tell them, and you're just going to get caught up in the system even deeper. Really? You're going to go down in the quicksand even more if you go do that. And I always tell people the time to confront people is when you don't need to. If you need to, you're probably out of sync. Really? Yeah.

So not that we can't confront some people.

So not that we can't confront some people.

I got to confront if they're not giving me my coffee. Sure, sure. But generally, I'm talking about this emotional stuff.

I got to confront if they're not giving me my coffee. Sure, sure. But generally, I'm talking about this emotional stuff.

Bad things have upsides. Bad things have downsides. Good things have upsides. Good things have downsides.

Bad things have upsides. Bad things have downsides. Good things have upsides. Good things have downsides.

what would be the positive outcome of that? Yeah. You can if you want, but I'm just trying to think what's the utility of it. If it provides something, okay. But I don't know that I would go through all that to try to find them and confront them.

what would be the positive outcome of that? Yeah. You can if you want, but I'm just trying to think what's the utility of it. If it provides something, okay. But I don't know that I would go through all that to try to find them and confront them.

Right.

Right.

Great question. When do you stop being a child?

Great question. When do you stop being a child?

When do you stop having a child inside you? Never. Start your childhood now.

When do you stop having a child inside you? Never. Start your childhood now.

Self-parenting, re-parenting. And now I'm going to ask myself, what would you like to go do to play? Because just like with a tree, a tree starts out with a little branch and grows up to be a big tree. But the little tree hasn't gone away. I mean, it's still in there. It's still a part of the growth. And we're the same way. It's called our inner child.

Self-parenting, re-parenting. And now I'm going to ask myself, what would you like to go do to play? Because just like with a tree, a tree starts out with a little branch and grows up to be a big tree. But the little tree hasn't gone away. I mean, it's still in there. It's still a part of the growth. And we're the same way. It's called our inner child.

And the inner child we have all the rest of our lives. And many people actually, because of their family of origin, abuse their inner child because... That's what happened when they grew up. And so they parent themselves the way their parents parented them. Wow. And that's the whole story of connectedness. Parents parent you, you parent you, and that we continue on. And you parent your kids.

And the inner child we have all the rest of our lives. And many people actually, because of their family of origin, abuse their inner child because... That's what happened when they grew up. And so they parent themselves the way their parents parented them. Wow. And that's the whole story of connectedness. Parents parent you, you parent you, and that we continue on. And you parent your kids.

And then you parent your kids. So if you can get your insides straightened out, generations will be grateful to you. And I literally mean generations because it probably took about five generations to get to here. That's dysfunctional. Probably five to get here. You can change the world if you change you. And even now, I still work on my self-differentiation. I have a 39-year-old son.

And then you parent your kids. So if you can get your insides straightened out, generations will be grateful to you. And I literally mean generations because it probably took about five generations to get to here. That's dysfunctional. Probably five to get here. You can change the world if you change you. And even now, I still work on my self-differentiation. I have a 39-year-old son.

And I do that because I want to have as good a relationship as I can have with him. Because whatever issues I leave unresolved for me, who gets to resolve them?

And I do that because I want to have as good a relationship as I can have with him. Because whatever issues I leave unresolved for me, who gets to resolve them?

Wow.

Wow.

But because you're a good guy.

But because you're a good guy.

Good person. Yeah. And that's why, right, it's not about this is my property as the kids. They're not my property. And I would like to have a relationship where now when I hug Andrew, I can give him a kiss on the neck. And I even asked him, I told him, if you don't want me to do that, I won't. You're an adult.

Good person. Yeah. And that's why, right, it's not about this is my property as the kids. They're not my property. And I would like to have a relationship where now when I hug Andrew, I can give him a kiss on the neck. And I even asked him, I told him, if you don't want me to do that, I won't. You're an adult.

I don't want to embarrass you. He said, my friends just think it's fabulous. they wish their dad would do that. Right, right. And so, because I felt that's what I wanted to do. But I'd give him permission to be him. I mean, I'm not going to do something you don't want me to do.

I don't want to embarrass you. He said, my friends just think it's fabulous. they wish their dad would do that. Right, right. And so, because I felt that's what I wanted to do. But I'd give him permission to be him. I mean, I'm not going to do something you don't want me to do.

Healing the child within you and self-differentiating the adult within you. So we have both those works.

Healing the child within you and self-differentiating the adult within you. So we have both those works.

Well, and if they would say, I don't need to work on my inner child, I would say, now you've already told me what you don't know. Because if you don't understand that or work that way, you're going to be blinded. Which is your right. Live life how you want. You don't have to do any inner child work.

Well, and if they would say, I don't need to work on my inner child, I would say, now you've already told me what you don't know. Because if you don't understand that or work that way, you're going to be blinded. Which is your right. Live life how you want. You don't have to do any inner child work.

I'm just telling you the way human beings function, you know, and that while it is a construct or a metaphor, you know, the inner child, it is that, but It truly is a part, we are biological. We are biological creatures. And so we have that part of us. I'm never not the seventh grader. I'm never not the third grader. I'm never not the 50 year old. I'm all of those.

I'm just telling you the way human beings function, you know, and that while it is a construct or a metaphor, you know, the inner child, it is that, but It truly is a part, we are biological. We are biological creatures. And so we have that part of us. I'm never not the seventh grader. I'm never not the third grader. I'm never not the 50 year old. I'm all of those.

But particularly in childhood is where we get a lot of that programming going on that carries over to older ages. And so when we think about, would you know if your inner child wanted you to do something? And if you don't know, do you think that could be problematic? Probably, yeah. And many people will go, I don't think I want to work on inner child stuff. That's all psychological mumbo-jumbo.

But particularly in childhood is where we get a lot of that programming going on that carries over to older ages. And so when we think about, would you know if your inner child wanted you to do something? And if you don't know, do you think that could be problematic? Probably, yeah. And many people will go, I don't think I want to work on inner child stuff. That's all psychological mumbo-jumbo.

Okay, well, that's fine. You don't have to. However, when you are hypercritical of yourself and very down on yourself, who are you down on? Hmm. The adult self, the inner child, probably more likely the inner child, because you're going to act like your parents to the child. That's just what we do.

Okay, well, that's fine. You don't have to. However, when you are hypercritical of yourself and very down on yourself, who are you down on? Hmm. The adult self, the inner child, probably more likely the inner child, because you're going to act like your parents to the child. That's just what we do.

One of the things certainly that I found is that so many people grow up under the family trance. And so the family trance, they don't understand the dysfunction of their family because it's been normalized. And I've used the term malignant normalcy.

One of the things certainly that I found is that so many people grow up under the family trance. And so the family trance, they don't understand the dysfunction of their family because it's been normalized. And I've used the term malignant normalcy.

And so knowing that can be helpful because if you become a collaborator with your inner child, it stabilizes you. If you're not, then you're always fighting yourself in business, in success, in money, in jobs, in marriages, in relationships. You're always going to be fighting yourself. And if we talk long enough, I'll prove that to you. You know, I would prove that to you. Sure, sure, sure.

And so knowing that can be helpful because if you become a collaborator with your inner child, it stabilizes you. If you're not, then you're always fighting yourself in business, in success, in money, in jobs, in marriages, in relationships. You're always going to be fighting yourself. And if we talk long enough, I'll prove that to you. You know, I would prove that to you. Sure, sure, sure.

How that's...

How that's...

The thing is, first of all, I might say you're not being your true self. You're being a pseudo self to yourself. You're being the family super self to yourself. When you're acting that way. When you're acting that way. That's not you, but you think it's you. And I'm going, it really isn't. It's... You're bringing the family trance.

The thing is, first of all, I might say you're not being your true self. You're being a pseudo self to yourself. You're being the family super self to yourself. When you're acting that way. When you're acting that way. That's not you, but you think it's you. And I'm going, it really isn't. It's... You're bringing the family trance.

Trance, Wi-Fi, super self, we call it, because all the family connects to this big super self that's all enmeshed emotionally. And we even know biologically. There's a way to describe it.

Trance, Wi-Fi, super self, we call it, because all the family connects to this big super self that's all enmeshed emotionally. And we even know biologically. There's a way to describe it.

And that you're now not, you're not, when somebody's going, and I'm fine with being hypercritical of myself. I'm not going to look at my inner child. But every time I hear you being self-critical in a negative way, you know, towards yourself, I'm going, why are you not being yourself? Because would yourself do that? And they'd probably go, well, no, I wouldn't. Then where is that coming from?

And that you're now not, you're not, when somebody's going, and I'm fine with being hypercritical of myself. I'm not going to look at my inner child. But every time I hear you being self-critical in a negative way, you know, towards yourself, I'm going, why are you not being yourself? Because would yourself do that? And they'd probably go, well, no, I wouldn't. Then where is that coming from?

You know, well, it's just what I've always done. Oh, well, now we're going to all what's always been done. Okay. My point.

You know, well, it's just what I've always done. Oh, well, now we're going to all what's always been done. Okay. My point.

Exactly. And all of us have negative parts of all those things. But I want to have fewer or less. I want to have less of a pseudo self, less of a non-real self that's me. And all that hypercriticalness is being the family self. That's your family self. And I'm going... You want to be successful by being your family self and you tell me how bad that all was. You're doing it.

Exactly. And all of us have negative parts of all those things. But I want to have fewer or less. I want to have less of a pseudo self, less of a non-real self that's me. And all that hypercriticalness is being the family self. That's your family self. And I'm going... You want to be successful by being your family self and you tell me how bad that all was. You're doing it.

You're repeating it right now.

You're repeating it right now.

Right, right. Yeah, I don't do that to other people. Okay, do you ever do it to you? Oh, well, yeah, that's how I'm successful because I'm so critical of myself.

Right, right. Yeah, I don't do that to other people. Okay, do you ever do it to you? Oh, well, yeah, that's how I'm successful because I'm so critical of myself.

It helps me be driven and like... That doesn't sound like a authentic self.

It helps me be driven and like... That doesn't sound like a authentic self.

Because then if I grew up abused and I'm in an abusive relationship, I've normalized the abuse as not something I like, but I will accept or it's kind of normal. But that's a malignant normalcy. That's not a normalcy you want to have.

Because then if I grew up abused and I'm in an abusive relationship, I've normalized the abuse as not something I like, but I will accept or it's kind of normal. But that's a malignant normalcy. That's not a normalcy you want to have.

I'm always so happy that I am loved now. I'm always at peace because I'm not in conflict now. I'm always looking forward to new adventures now because it's life as it should be. And those kind of if you're talking about the inner child talking. And thank you so much for getting the family out of you.

I'm always so happy that I am loved now. I'm always at peace because I'm not in conflict now. I'm always looking forward to new adventures now because it's life as it should be. And those kind of if you're talking about the inner child talking. And thank you so much for getting the family out of you.

And that we can just be us. We can just be a real us.

And that we can just be us. We can just be a real us.

I want to learn to remain connected, which is what we call kind of emotionally connected. And I am going to be myself.

I want to learn to remain connected, which is what we call kind of emotionally connected. And I am going to be myself.

And when somebody says, so I'm going to tell you something, I want you to go home and tell your family or your parents. this holiday or whenever you're going to see them. How would you feel about doing that? Like you want to change the date of when you get together for Christmas or when you, how comfortable do you feel going and telling them that and this is your preference?

And when somebody says, so I'm going to tell you something, I want you to go home and tell your family or your parents. this holiday or whenever you're going to see them. How would you feel about doing that? Like you want to change the date of when you get together for Christmas or when you, how comfortable do you feel going and telling them that and this is your preference?

Oh my gosh, that's going to be a mess. And this can be a president of a company. who runs people all the time, but he's going to go home and tell mom and dad, I don't want to do, you know, Christmas at the same time we've always done it. Oh my, you're going to, that's why, that's why we so become children when we go home.

Oh my gosh, that's going to be a mess. And this can be a president of a company. who runs people all the time, but he's going to go home and tell mom and dad, I don't want to do, you know, Christmas at the same time we've always done it. Oh my, you're going to, that's why, that's why we so become children when we go home.

And many people will say that. When I get home, I just feel like I'm back, back in junior high, or I'm back in, my parents treat me this way, and here I am, the president of GM or whatever. They're still babying you. They're still babying me and think I'm an idiot. And it bothers them. And I would help them learn for it not to bother them. That's them. They're not you.

And many people will say that. When I get home, I just feel like I'm back, back in junior high, or I'm back in, my parents treat me this way, and here I am, the president of GM or whatever. They're still babying you. They're still babying me and think I'm an idiot. And it bothers them. And I would help them learn for it not to bother them. That's them. They're not you.

Enmeshment is I am you and you are me. Non-enmeshment is you are you and I am me. I am not you and you are not me. And we can have a relationship. And that's a healthy relationship. Because this is not a healthy relationship. This is not a healthy relationship. This is a healthy relationship.

Enmeshment is I am you and you are me. Non-enmeshment is you are you and I am me. I am not you and you are not me. And we can have a relationship. And that's a healthy relationship. Because this is not a healthy relationship. This is not a healthy relationship. This is a healthy relationship.

You need distance and space to have closeness.

You need distance and space to have closeness.

This, you can't have closeness. you're over close. This is over distant probably because you're over close and you can't have closeness.

This, you can't have closeness. you're over close. This is over distant probably because you're over close and you can't have closeness.

And so when people, when I think about helping people see, and really that's what my work is about, is to help people see outside the box and to see in a broader way so much of all the dynamics that are going on within the family. And if you have a narcissistic family, or there's all kinds of other dysfunctional families too, There are some universals that go along with that.

And so when people, when I think about helping people see, and really that's what my work is about, is to help people see outside the box and to see in a broader way so much of all the dynamics that are going on within the family. And if you have a narcissistic family, or there's all kinds of other dysfunctional families too, There are some universals that go along with that.

100%.

100%.

We have to accept them for who they are. And also the other thing is, this is what I will also tell people, If you accepted your parents just the way they are, what relationship would you like to have with them? But you have to accept. Well, I'd get along better if they would do. They changed. Yeah, yeah. They are exactly who they are and they're not going to change.

We have to accept them for who they are. And also the other thing is, this is what I will also tell people, If you accepted your parents just the way they are, what relationship would you like to have with them? But you have to accept. Well, I'd get along better if they would do. They changed. Yeah, yeah. They are exactly who they are and they're not going to change.

What relationship do you want to have? Do you know you can do that in marital work too?

What relationship do you want to have? Do you know you can do that in marital work too?

Your wife or husband's not going to change. What relationship do you want to have with them? Well, we're here so that that changes. Oh, so you came here to work with me to change him. Oh, well, at least I know now what our goal is and what you were planning on.

Your wife or husband's not going to change. What relationship do you want to have with them? Well, we're here so that that changes. Oh, so you came here to work with me to change him. Oh, well, at least I know now what our goal is and what you were planning on.

The impossible goal, and you're going to find me to be a very inadequate coach, and he's going to fail, and it's going to be a mess.

The impossible goal, and you're going to find me to be a very inadequate coach, and he's going to fail, and it's going to be a mess.

What if you were to mom sits down or dad sits down or whatever and they're at the table and you have coffee and go, you know, what was it like when you grew up? What was it like in your family? What did you like about it and what did you not like about it? I'm being a researcher. Now I've just changed emotional location with them.

What if you were to mom sits down or dad sits down or whatever and they're at the table and you have coffee and go, you know, what was it like when you grew up? What was it like in your family? What did you like about it and what did you not like about it? I'm being a researcher. Now I've just changed emotional location with them.

I'm no longer the little child who they're going to... Now, they may say, oh, well, we don't want to talk about any of that. Okay, well, I just wanted to ask. I'm not going to make them do it, but I'm now an adult and treating them as an adult. hey, what was it like during the war? My parents would be older. And what was it like going through the Depression and those kind of things?

I'm no longer the little child who they're going to... Now, they may say, oh, well, we don't want to talk about any of that. Okay, well, I just wanted to ask. I'm not going to make them do it, but I'm now an adult and treating them as an adult. hey, what was it like during the war? My parents would be older. And what was it like going through the Depression and those kind of things?

Because I've changed my emotional location, I'm no longer this little boy and they're these parents that are, now they have to talk to me like an adult. Because I'm asking an adult thing and I'm asking something about them. And that I've changed something that has changed, that will change the dynamic.

Because I've changed my emotional location, I'm no longer this little boy and they're these parents that are, now they have to talk to me like an adult. Because I'm asking an adult thing and I'm asking something about them. And that I've changed something that has changed, that will change the dynamic.

And there are many other ways to change the dynamic, too, to learn how to, you know, even if it's a well, I remember my own example of I was a pastor for many years and I had my father died. It fell on me to give the, now who's going to give the family prayer at the meal? Well, it's going to be, I'm the youngest. But I was the only one who was in religious circles in that way. So it has to be me.

And there are many other ways to change the dynamic, too, to learn how to, you know, even if it's a well, I remember my own example of I was a pastor for many years and I had my father died. It fell on me to give the, now who's going to give the family prayer at the meal? Well, it's going to be, I'm the youngest. But I was the only one who was in religious circles in that way. So it has to be me.

But when you say a narcissistic family, I think when you start to recognize, hey, they've always been controlling. They lack empathy. They guilt and shame. They could be abusive, but they don't have to be abusive to be narcissistic. they love you and they have a plan for your life. And I say love with air quotes.

But when you say a narcissistic family, I think when you start to recognize, hey, they've always been controlling. They lack empathy. They guilt and shame. They could be abusive, but they don't have to be abusive to be narcissistic. they love you and they have a plan for your life. And I say love with air quotes.

And mom assumed it would be me. I didn't want to do it.

And mom assumed it would be me. I didn't want to do it.

Even though that was, I'm not the family's pastor. Right. I'm Jerry. I'm not your.

Even though that was, I'm not the family's pastor. Right. I'm Jerry. I'm not your.

I'm the youngest. What? Why am I? Because everyone just wanted it taken away from them. So I told mom several times before the meal, I don't wish to do this. That's not my preference. And she'd just ignore it. Oh, I know. Just do it anyway. Just do it anyway and blah, blah, blah, blah. Mom, and several times to prepare because I know it's changed.

I'm the youngest. What? Why am I? Because everyone just wanted it taken away from them. So I told mom several times before the meal, I don't wish to do this. That's not my preference. And she'd just ignore it. Oh, I know. Just do it anyway. Just do it anyway and blah, blah, blah, blah. Mom, and several times to prepare because I know it's changed.

So when we got to the time, we're all standing there all around the table. She looks at me and goes, What did you do? Jerry, would you like to? Did you give in? And this is one of my major steps of self-differentiation. Mom, we had discussed this several times. And one of my preferences is this is not what I wanted to do.

So when we got to the time, we're all standing there all around the table. She looks at me and goes, What did you do? Jerry, would you like to? Did you give in? And this is one of my major steps of self-differentiation. Mom, we had discussed this several times. And one of my preferences is this is not what I wanted to do.

So I just wanted to share that. And then shut up.

So I just wanted to share that. And then shut up.

Everybody's going, we don't do that in our family.

Everybody's going, we don't do that in our family.

Well, our family was never the same. Really? Never the same. Well, you lose a parent, you're going to, I mean, it's never the same.

Well, our family was never the same. Really? Never the same. Well, you lose a parent, you're going to, I mean, it's never the same.

But that someone would say no. Wow. And and so mom went ahead and gave and then it was shared around and nobody asked me. But then I could say, hey, I'd be happy to do that today if you'd like me to do it, because now I'm doing it. Because I'm choosing it. I want to. But it's not, here's your role. You do this role, Jerry, and be happy.

But that someone would say no. Wow. And and so mom went ahead and gave and then it was shared around and nobody asked me. But then I could say, hey, I'd be happy to do that today if you'd like me to do it, because now I'm doing it. Because I'm choosing it. I want to. But it's not, here's your role. You do this role, Jerry, and be happy.

Yes. She gave me a look like, we don't do that. But then you said, I'm going to clear my boundary. It was just to state my position. And then the hardest thing to do was to stay quiet. Apologize. And not save anybody from this moment. Wow, interesting. That's self-differentiation in the family. Wow. Because I'm changing my dynamic in the family. I would have said, oh, no, it's going to be okay.

Yes. She gave me a look like, we don't do that. But then you said, I'm going to clear my boundary. It was just to state my position. And then the hardest thing to do was to stay quiet. Apologize. And not save anybody from this moment. Wow, interesting. That's self-differentiation in the family. Wow. Because I'm changing my dynamic in the family. I would have said, oh, no, it's going to be okay.

Or, okay, I'll do it today. But, you know, I don't want anybody to feel bad.

Or, okay, I'll do it today. But, you know, I don't want anybody to feel bad.

Well, and then I thought, my brother's not going to like this. Nobody's going to like this. Because, and look, she just lost her husband. Oh, man. We lost her dad. And now I'm... Because you're being a little brat. You're being a little brat. All the role thing that's going to come out. And I'm going... but I can't care about that. Wow. That I'm not their little brat.

Well, and then I thought, my brother's not going to like this. Nobody's going to like this. Because, and look, she just lost her husband. Oh, man. We lost her dad. And now I'm... Because you're being a little brat. You're being a little brat. All the role thing that's going to come out. And I'm going... but I can't care about that. Wow. That I'm not their little brat.

They can think of me as a little brat. They are not me. I am not them. Wow. I'm not a little brat. I have a purpose to, because mom always used to guilt me into shame, guilt me into singing because I did professional music and I sang and I did things like that and went to music school and Lord knows what. And so she, oh, Jerry, you have to sing for everybody. I don't want.

They can think of me as a little brat. They are not me. I am not them. Wow. I'm not a little brat. I have a purpose to, because mom always used to guilt me into shame, guilt me into singing because I did professional music and I sang and I did things like that and went to music school and Lord knows what. And so she, oh, Jerry, you have to sing for everybody. I don't want.

Sometimes I don't. And I'm not here to be the monkey on a, you know, okay, Jerry, now perform. And I never could say no.

Sometimes I don't. And I'm not here to be the monkey on a, you know, okay, Jerry, now perform. And I never could say no.

We used to say that in religious circles, God loves you and he has a plan for your life. Well, the narcissist loves you and they have a plan for your life and you better follow it. Wow. Or else. Or else. And the narcissist will be very self-absorbed. Everything is basically about them. It always comes back to them. That's the whole focus.

We used to say that in religious circles, God loves you and he has a plan for your life. Well, the narcissist loves you and they have a plan for your life and you better follow it. Wow. Or else. Or else. And the narcissist will be very self-absorbed. Everything is basically about them. It always comes back to them. That's the whole focus.

Well, to the family prayer was the beginning of. And then you started to stand for yourself. Then I'm going, this is the new Jerry. Boundaries. Boundaries. And I'm not going to get reactive. I'm not going to be mad that mom didn't listen to me before we got there and that she would rescue me from this moment by not asking me because I knew she wasn't going to rescue me from this moment.

Well, to the family prayer was the beginning of. And then you started to stand for yourself. Then I'm going, this is the new Jerry. Boundaries. Boundaries. And I'm not going to get reactive. I'm not going to be mad that mom didn't listen to me before we got there and that she would rescue me from this moment by not asking me because I knew she wasn't going to rescue me from this moment.

But I don't need to be mad at her. She just had her plan. I have mine.

But I don't need to be mad at her. She just had her plan. I have mine.

They can't stop that dynamic change. They might throw a fuss. They could throw a fuss. They might scream. They might scream. Silent treatment. Well, we also have three levels of resistance. What are those? That if you go through those three levels of resistance, you'll come out at a higher level. First level is, Jerry, why are you saying no, you won't do this?

They can't stop that dynamic change. They might throw a fuss. They could throw a fuss. They might scream. They might scream. Silent treatment. Well, we also have three levels of resistance. What are those? That if you go through those three levels of resistance, you'll come out at a higher level. First level is, Jerry, why are you saying no, you won't do this?

Second stage of resistance is, Jerry, no, you need to be doing this, and I'll be upset if you don't. Third, do this or else. And if you can stay self-differentiated through all three levels, you'll start here, go up the levels, and end up here in the family. Not here, but here. Because they can't... They can't control you anymore. They can't control my dynamic of the family.

Second stage of resistance is, Jerry, no, you need to be doing this, and I'll be upset if you don't. Third, do this or else. And if you can stay self-differentiated through all three levels, you'll start here, go up the levels, and end up here in the family. Not here, but here. Because they can't... They can't control you anymore. They can't control my dynamic of the family.

They can yell and scream and do all that, but this family is now different because I'm different. Let's go. And I'm still connected. Right. If I'm not connected, then you don't have the power. The emphasis is not there. But if I'm still connected, they... And you could become a scapegoat. You could become, I mean, that's one of the, then we'll make you the scapegoat.

They can yell and scream and do all that, but this family is now different because I'm different. Let's go. And I'm still connected. Right. If I'm not connected, then you don't have the power. The emphasis is not there. But if I'm still connected, they... And you could become a scapegoat. You could become, I mean, that's one of the, then we'll make you the scapegoat.

And you can go, that's fine if you need to do that. And I'm going to continue to be me. And I can love you. And, you know, if that's what you need to do, then we have to be patient and let time. And now they have to decide what. Do we want to lose him or do we not? The burden's on them now, not on me.

And you can go, that's fine if you need to do that. And I'm going to continue to be me. And I can love you. And, you know, if that's what you need to do, then we have to be patient and let time. And now they have to decide what. Do we want to lose him or do we not? The burden's on them now, not on me.

Can we change to accept him? And that's their choice. They get to decide that way.

Can we change to accept him? And that's their choice. They get to decide that way.

And what I tell everybody, I understand that. And that's an excellent goal. And in fact, it's never too late. People even say, well, I'm 70 now. How can I? So aren't you still a biological human being? I mean, you still are a cell in this whole world of the universe we have. So you're still functioning in that so you can change. Now, some people can't change because of very real limitations.

And what I tell everybody, I understand that. And that's an excellent goal. And in fact, it's never too late. People even say, well, I'm 70 now. How can I? So aren't you still a biological human being? I mean, you still are a cell in this whole world of the universe we have. So you're still functioning in that so you can change. Now, some people can't change because of very real limitations.

And if you have parents who have some of those type of traits, there are other traits, but some of those people will always ask me, am I a narcissist? And I'll go, do you ever feel guilty? Oh, yeah, all the time. Then you're not.

And if you have parents who have some of those type of traits, there are other traits, but some of those people will always ask me, am I a narcissist? And I'll go, do you ever feel guilty? Oh, yeah, all the time. Then you're not.

And I understand. Even some narcissists, they're so broken because of that. But you can change and that what we want to do is focus on whatever you want for your kids, you must obtain for yourself. So it's not what you teach them. It's what you be to them. That's much more powerful than anything you say.

And I understand. Even some narcissists, they're so broken because of that. But you can change and that what we want to do is focus on whatever you want for your kids, you must obtain for yourself. So it's not what you teach them. It's what you be to them. That's much more powerful than anything you say.

Well, people will say, now, you need to, you ought not do that, you ought not do that. But the thing is, if I am mature enough If I am less reactive, if I am more calm, if I am more thoughtful, if I am able to see a more clear view of how all the system works in my relationships, that comes through because of the connectedness.

Well, people will say, now, you need to, you ought not do that, you ought not do that. But the thing is, if I am mature enough If I am less reactive, if I am more calm, if I am more thoughtful, if I am able to see a more clear view of how all the system works in my relationships, that comes through because of the connectedness.

And that's the more powerful dynamic than all the book reading you do about how you tell people. As a marriage and family therapist, people were always asking me about parental advice. And there's good advice out there. You can read tons of books on parental advice. But the thing is... If the envelope is bad, then the message in it is gonna have a good message in a bad envelope.

And that's the more powerful dynamic than all the book reading you do about how you tell people. As a marriage and family therapist, people were always asking me about parental advice. And there's good advice out there. You can read tons of books on parental advice. But the thing is... If the envelope is bad, then the message in it is gonna have a good message in a bad envelope.

I'm talking about changing the envelope. Then you put the good message in, it's all different. Because so many just go, well, I'm going to give them this envelope. But you're living like crap. You hate yourself and you're telling them you need to love yourself. You need to bad envelope, right message. Let's get good envelope. I'm not going to tell you to love yourself. I'm going to love myself.

I'm talking about changing the envelope. Then you put the good message in, it's all different. Because so many just go, well, I'm going to give them this envelope. But you're living like crap. You hate yourself and you're telling them you need to love yourself. You need to bad envelope, right message. Let's get good envelope. I'm not going to tell you to love yourself. I'm going to love myself.

No, right. A narcissist is not going to feel that guilt. What have they done wrong? They're always right. So why would I feel guilt about anything or shame? So if you felt that, you're probably less likely to be a narcissist. But a parent can be a narcissistic parent. They can abuse you. They can criticize you. But they'll never go, oh, my bad. They won't apologize. Why would they apologize?

No, right. A narcissist is not going to feel that guilt. What have they done wrong? They're always right. So why would I feel guilt about anything or shame? So if you felt that, you're probably less likely to be a narcissist. But a parent can be a narcissistic parent. They can abuse you. They can criticize you. But they'll never go, oh, my bad. They won't apologize. Why would they apologize?

And then what I've found is as you are self-aware, becoming self-regulated, and becoming self-differentiated. Those are kind of the three, aware, regulated, differentiated. As you're doing those three, and we can learn how to do those three, right?

And then what I've found is as you are self-aware, becoming self-regulated, and becoming self-differentiated. Those are kind of the three, aware, regulated, differentiated. As you're doing those three, and we can learn how to do those three, right?

that it is better for it to take longer and be right and actually effective than to go quick fix or shorter and you go over and come back to the same spot. The other weird thing about change, and again, that's kind of been my whole thing all my life is how do I change? And then as a professional, how do I change other people or help them change or whether I'm changing them or whatever?

that it is better for it to take longer and be right and actually effective than to go quick fix or shorter and you go over and come back to the same spot. The other weird thing about change, and again, that's kind of been my whole thing all my life is how do I change? And then as a professional, how do I change other people or help them change or whether I'm changing them or whatever?

How does change work? Change also, many people go, well, that can take a while. It also can take two seconds and you're never the same. Now, why is that? That's a change. People will tell me that all the time that I've never been the same since that. Well, that's a pretty quick change. Yeah, I decided. That's a pretty quick awareness that you had.

How does change work? Change also, many people go, well, that can take a while. It also can take two seconds and you're never the same. Now, why is that? That's a change. People will tell me that all the time that I've never been the same since that. Well, that's a pretty quick change. Yeah, I decided. That's a pretty quick awareness that you had.

So there's the long work and then along the work, along the way, you'll have these moments of just, I'm just... So different. And I think that's really a cool part of the work that I help people with.

So there's the long work and then along the work, along the way, you'll have these moments of just, I'm just... So different. And I think that's really a cool part of the work that I help people with.

That's why we have roles. Roles is to make the family continue to operate in its dysfunctional way.

That's why we have roles. Roles is to make the family continue to operate in its dysfunctional way.

But that's not a role. That's a self.

But that's not a role. That's a self.

Myself and my values and my beliefs, I'm going to support you. Gotcha. And that's not a role I'm playing. That's my genuine beliefs. So when we're playing a role, what are we doing? Being a pseudo-self. A role is a pseudo-self. Golden child is a pseudo-self. Problem child. Problem child is a pseudo-self. I'm not saying they really didn't come out of a family where that was emphasized.

Myself and my values and my beliefs, I'm going to support you. Gotcha. And that's not a role I'm playing. That's my genuine beliefs. So when we're playing a role, what are we doing? Being a pseudo-self. A role is a pseudo-self. Golden child is a pseudo-self. Problem child. Problem child is a pseudo-self. I'm not saying they really didn't come out of a family where that was emphasized.

I'm not saying it didn't really happen. But I think once you realize, you know that's not you. You know that's not you. I know that's the way you've lived, and that's what everybody's always said. But it's really not who you are. And so... With roles, I think of roles as being a pseudo-self. What we want to do is to be our authentic selves.

I'm not saying it didn't really happen. But I think once you realize, you know that's not you. You know that's not you. I know that's the way you've lived, and that's what everybody's always said. But it's really not who you are. And so... With roles, I think of roles as being a pseudo-self. What we want to do is to be our authentic selves.

Not a pseudo-self. Oh, I know. You were saying you were right. To please. We're going to please. That's a pseudo-self. And why am I Mr. Pleaser? Which I was, absolutely was, codependent, Mr. Pleaser. Oh my gosh, it was just... Why is that?

Not a pseudo-self. Oh, I know. You were saying you were right. To please. We're going to please. That's a pseudo-self. And why am I Mr. Pleaser? Which I was, absolutely was, codependent, Mr. Pleaser. Oh my gosh, it was just... Why is that?

And I think when you say seek approval, I don't know. I used to teach codependency, have codependency groups. And so I know all the symptoms of codependency and all that. However, at the bottom line of it, is it's the family's chronic anxiety, which you're not aware of, that pushes you to then go, oh, I need to get approval or I need to be pleasing.

And I think when you say seek approval, I don't know. I used to teach codependency, have codependency groups. And so I know all the symptoms of codependency and all that. However, at the bottom line of it, is it's the family's chronic anxiety, which you're not aware of, that pushes you to then go, oh, I need to get approval or I need to be pleasing.

So we need to reduce the chronic anxiety so you're not doing the pleasing part.

So we need to reduce the chronic anxiety so you're not doing the pleasing part.

First of all, you have to recognize it. You have to recognize what's underneath your pleasing, your withdrawing, your overcompensating, your hyperfunctioning, your underfunctioning. Underfunctioning comes because of anxiety. All of these come because of chronic anxiety. Anxiety is a bedrock of life. That's how life got started. And we have a brain that functions that way too.

First of all, you have to recognize it. You have to recognize what's underneath your pleasing, your withdrawing, your overcompensating, your hyperfunctioning, your underfunctioning. Underfunctioning comes because of anxiety. All of these come because of chronic anxiety. Anxiety is a bedrock of life. That's how life got started. And we have a brain that functions that way too.

But we don't want to function out of our old brain. We want to function out of our new brain. All of this stuff has to do with our old brain. It's the old brain. And so you feel like you're in a room with a tiger. Well, why do you feel like you're in a room with a tiger when there's no tiger there? Because a million years ago, you needed that. You needed that anxiety to save yourself.

But we don't want to function out of our old brain. We want to function out of our new brain. All of this stuff has to do with our old brain. It's the old brain. And so you feel like you're in a room with a tiger. Well, why do you feel like you're in a room with a tiger when there's no tiger there? Because a million years ago, you needed that. You needed that anxiety to save yourself.

Now we have the experience of it, but it's not there. And so we have to learn to operate with our brain better. Wow. And so I think whatever I, and I didn't realize this, oh, being like a mascot, I was also a mascot. And so I would get nervous. You've had many lives, Jerry. I would get nervous and in a group or in a therapy group or a supervision group or whatever we do.

Now we have the experience of it, but it's not there. And so we have to learn to operate with our brain better. Wow. And so I think whatever I, and I didn't realize this, oh, being like a mascot, I was also a mascot. And so I would get nervous. You've had many lives, Jerry. I would get nervous and in a group or in a therapy group or a supervision group or whatever we do.

You made them do it. You made them do it. Or they did it. For your good. So why would I ever need to say, I'm sorry? There's no need to say I'm sorry.

You made them do it. You made them do it. Or they did it. For your good. So why would I ever need to say, I'm sorry? There's no need to say I'm sorry.

And if it was tension, what would I break it with? A joke or making fun. And I was serving a function with that. Playing a role. I'm playing a role. But it was my anxiety I wasn't managing. I can't deal with your tension. So I'm going to be funny if I begin to learn, well, I need to let them have their tension. why do I need to rescue them from this tension with my humor?

And if it was tension, what would I break it with? A joke or making fun. And I was serving a function with that. Playing a role. I'm playing a role. But it was my anxiety I wasn't managing. I can't deal with your tension. So I'm going to be funny if I begin to learn, well, I need to let them have their tension. why do I need to rescue them from this tension with my humor?

And also it doesn't get us anywhere. I mean, I can, and there's a time to reduce tension. There's, and I've done that certainly legitimately, but whatever we do over function or under function comes out of the anxiety that we're, that we're not most of what's happening with you is, you haven't learned to understand why it happens. You're just living your life as you should.

And also it doesn't get us anywhere. I mean, I can, and there's a time to reduce tension. There's, and I've done that certainly legitimately, but whatever we do over function or under function comes out of the anxiety that we're, that we're not most of what's happening with you is, you haven't learned to understand why it happens. You're just living your life as you should.

But if I started helping you understand the underlying anxiety, you go, oh, I think you're right. That was my anxiety. Oh, that was my anxiety. And it's the chronic anxiety from over here at the family that we inherit that anxiety, and we inherit that level of self-differentiation. So if there are twos on a 10 scale, what do you think we're going to be?

But if I started helping you understand the underlying anxiety, you go, oh, I think you're right. That was my anxiety. Oh, that was my anxiety. And it's the chronic anxiety from over here at the family that we inherit that anxiety, and we inherit that level of self-differentiation. So if there are twos on a 10 scale, what do you think we're going to be?

In self-differentiation. I'm not talking morally, spiritually. And so we want to work on raising that number while staying connected. And then my fourness helps them become two and a quarter. Right, right. Barely. You're not even.

In self-differentiation. I'm not talking morally, spiritually. And so we want to work on raising that number while staying connected. And then my fourness helps them become two and a quarter. Right, right. Barely. You're not even.

And I'm not even trying to change them. That's not even my. But because we are connected, it's going to have an impact.

And I'm not even trying to change them. That's not even my. But because we are connected, it's going to have an impact.

Well, that's a science question. And we don't know the cause of narcissism. Certainly, we can say a narcissistic parent who is abusive and can create a narcissist. But there are so many layers of things going on from genetics to how the body affects in their environment, to parenting, to family dynamics, to trans or intergenerational stuff that comes. To biochemistry.

Well, that's a science question. And we don't know the cause of narcissism. Certainly, we can say a narcissistic parent who is abusive and can create a narcissist. But there are so many layers of things going on from genetics to how the body affects in their environment, to parenting, to family dynamics, to trans or intergenerational stuff that comes. To biochemistry.

And we don't have one good thing. This causes narcissism. And there are so many people that just say a narcissism is caused by a narcissist. That has not been my experience. Now, can narcissists have narcissists? Yes, of course they can have narcissists.

And we don't have one good thing. This causes narcissism. And there are so many people that just say a narcissism is caused by a narcissist. That has not been my experience. Now, can narcissists have narcissists? Yes, of course they can have narcissists.

But you're just painting a simplified view of it, and I don't think that's accurate because there's so many dynamics that can affect someone being a narcissist. Why is someone BPD or bipolar? We're a complicated organism, right? And so I think, and I don't think there's any one study that says, this is what, that would be probably irresponsible because that's not what the science.

But you're just painting a simplified view of it, and I don't think that's accurate because there's so many dynamics that can affect someone being a narcissist. Why is someone BPD or bipolar? We're a complicated organism, right? And so I think, and I don't think there's any one study that says, this is what, that would be probably irresponsible because that's not what the science.

No boundaries, overindulging.

No boundaries, overindulging.

Spoiling, whatever you want. Maybe throw in some abuse. I think those would be some good kind of things.

Spoiling, whatever you want. Maybe throw in some abuse. I think those would be some good kind of things.

No consequences. Also, many times shaming is a part of that soup. that goes in there. But again, it's already baked into the cake in the families. Because it was passed down already. It was passed down already. It's already passed down. And so those would be some things I'd be less, I would not want to do with my child. Sure. That they do need a sense of self, but not a sense of self-absorption.

No consequences. Also, many times shaming is a part of that soup. that goes in there. But again, it's already baked into the cake in the families. Because it was passed down already. It was passed down already. It's already passed down. And so those would be some things I'd be less, I would not want to do with my child. Sure. That they do need a sense of self, but not a sense of self-absorption.

That's too superficial. The thing that's going to make them more dysfunctional as an adult is to not break their own cycle from their own past, bringing that cycle to their current nuclear family, and not knowing it.

That's too superficial. The thing that's going to make them more dysfunctional as an adult is to not break their own cycle from their own past, bringing that cycle to their current nuclear family, and not knowing it.

The way we do that is by inner boundaries. Inner boundaries first? Inner boundaries first versus external boundaries. Because if you build your inner boundaries first, you'll be able to hold to your outer boundaries. If you don't, those are just, they're not going to work. You're not going to hold them.

The way we do that is by inner boundaries. Inner boundaries first? Inner boundaries first versus external boundaries. Because if you build your inner boundaries first, you'll be able to hold to your outer boundaries. If you don't, those are just, they're not going to work. You're not going to hold them.

So inner boundaries, when I think of inner boundaries, I think of learning to detach, learning to de-enmesh, learning to, I am not you, you are not me. And so if I want to maintain those boundaries, You have to learn to not care. Wow, that's tough. And the caring part is the dysfunctional part. And it doesn't sound weird me saying caring part is the dysfunctional part, but it is.

So inner boundaries, when I think of inner boundaries, I think of learning to detach, learning to de-enmesh, learning to, I am not you, you are not me. And so if I want to maintain those boundaries, You have to learn to not care. Wow, that's tough. And the caring part is the dysfunctional part. And it doesn't sound weird me saying caring part is the dysfunctional part, but it is.

It absolutely is the dysfunctional part.

It absolutely is the dysfunctional part.

Tell them thank you for that.

Tell them thank you for that.

When do we stop owing our parents? When do we...

When do we stop owing our parents? When do we...

No.

No.

That's what I'm saying. We never owe them anything. I didn't choose to get born. They had a child and they chose. Right. That was their choice. And the law says they have to take care of me and raise me.

That's what I'm saying. We never owe them anything. I didn't choose to get born. They had a child and they chose. Right. That was their choice. And the law says they have to take care of me and raise me.

And I would say, I can't tell you how much I have appreciated that. And they would say.

And I would say, I can't tell you how much I have appreciated that. And they would say.

Or you owe me to do this for me.

Or you owe me to do this for me.

And the thing is, me taking care of you has to do with my values, my morals, and my choices. Mm-hmm. and that I have no trouble doing that. However, it depends on what kind of relationship we're going to have. And if our relationship is only an evil one, then probably other means need to be worked out for your being taken care of. Wow, yeah.

And the thing is, me taking care of you has to do with my values, my morals, and my choices. Mm-hmm. and that I have no trouble doing that. However, it depends on what kind of relationship we're going to have. And if our relationship is only an evil one, then probably other means need to be worked out for your being taken care of. Wow, yeah.

Because I'm not going to completely blow up my life and my emotional inner peace. I can live without family. I can't live without inner peace.

Because I'm not going to completely blow up my life and my emotional inner peace. I can live without family. I can't live without inner peace.

And I would never say it's not hard. And I never look at people and go, oh, well, that should just be easy. And many times people say, oh, well, you just make it sound so easy. This was hard thought easy. This wasn't easy for me. No, no. And I'm not suggesting you should just be there without any struggle. However, I'm trying to give you a framework with which to work with.

And I would never say it's not hard. And I never look at people and go, oh, well, that should just be easy. And many times people say, oh, well, you just make it sound so easy. This was hard thought easy. This wasn't easy for me. No, no. And I'm not suggesting you should just be there without any struggle. However, I'm trying to give you a framework with which to work with.

If you didn't have to take care of your parents, would you? or if they are narcissistic parents, which, and I'm for kids taking care of their parents. I'm not anti-family or anti, I want families to be together. I want them to love each other. But if you have two malignant narcissists Now, what kind of caregiving relationship do you want to have with them?

If you didn't have to take care of your parents, would you? or if they are narcissistic parents, which, and I'm for kids taking care of their parents. I'm not anti-family or anti, I want families to be together. I want them to love each other. But if you have two malignant narcissists Now, what kind of caregiving relationship do you want to have with them?

And the generational programming, and the generational emotional Wi-Fi that's been going on and they just bring that right into here, that's gonna mess them up more than ever. Now, does abuse and narcissistic meanness, do all those things affect the kid? Of course it does. Screaming and all that stuff, yeah. Exactly. Of course it's going to.

And the generational programming, and the generational emotional Wi-Fi that's been going on and they just bring that right into here, that's gonna mess them up more than ever. Now, does abuse and narcissistic meanness, do all those things affect the kid? Of course it does. Screaming and all that stuff, yeah. Exactly. Of course it's going to.

You have to decide because you're your own agent. I mean, it can't be based on whatever they say, do, or then you're back to being a pseudo-self. And you're acting like a child. And you're acting like a child. And there's a parent.

You have to decide because you're your own agent. I mean, it can't be based on whatever they say, do, or then you're back to being a pseudo-self. And you're acting like a child. And you're acting like a child. And there's a parent.

Well, and they'll be leading you around by the nose if they're bad, narcissistic parents. Wow. So it's that because you're going to have to live with your choices. They have to live with theirs. And in fact, they've made maybe bad choices for the last many decades. Is it your time now to make up for that? How do you make up for their bad choices over 10? You can't. Decades and decades.

Well, and they'll be leading you around by the nose if they're bad, narcissistic parents. Wow. So it's that because you're going to have to live with your choices. They have to live with theirs. And in fact, they've made maybe bad choices for the last many decades. Is it your time now to make up for that? How do you make up for their bad choices over 10? You can't. Decades and decades.

I don't know how to do that. Yeah. Does that mean, and I took care of my mother. Everybody's got to decide for themselves. And also, I knew if I was going to do that, I needed inner boundaries.

I don't know how to do that. Yeah. Does that mean, and I took care of my mother. Everybody's got to decide for themselves. And also, I knew if I was going to do that, I needed inner boundaries.

I had to have inner boundaries if I was going to do that. that it just wasn't going to matter, and, you know, well, why don't you come visit me more at the nursing home? She mentally was there, all that, just physically couldn't do it. And I would visit her on a regular basis, but it was never enough.

I had to have inner boundaries if I was going to do that. that it just wasn't going to matter, and, you know, well, why don't you come visit me more at the nursing home? She mentally was there, all that, just physically couldn't do it. And I would visit her on a regular basis, but it was never enough.

Never enough.

Never enough.

And I have to decide, how much do I want to visit her?

And I have to decide, how much do I want to visit her?

Not because of guilting and shaming. And so I'm going, so if I don't, what does she think about me? I'm being a bad son.

Not because of guilting and shaming. And so I'm going, so if I don't, what does she think about me? I'm being a bad son.

And, well, I could even not care about it by totally accepting it. Wow. Hey, Mom, I know this is not what you would like. And I know you think I'm being a bad son because I'm not doing what Stan and Janice are doing with their mother down the hallway who is in my class, you know, whatever. And they could visit every day. But they had a different relationship with their mom than I had with my mom.

And, well, I could even not care about it by totally accepting it. Wow. Hey, Mom, I know this is not what you would like. And I know you think I'm being a bad son because I'm not doing what Stan and Janice are doing with their mother down the hallway who is in my class, you know, whatever. And they could visit every day. But they had a different relationship with their mom than I had with my mom.

So it's a different family. You know, they want to visit every day. That's wonderful.

So it's a different family. You know, they want to visit every day. That's wonderful.

I don't have to agree. I didn't agree with it at all. Yeah, yeah. And the same is true with tug of war. When you have a tug of war, if I accept it, I can drop the rope. And I just dropped the rope with mom. I'm the bad son. It's such a shame that God gave you a bad son like me.

I don't have to agree. I didn't agree with it at all. Yeah, yeah. And the same is true with tug of war. When you have a tug of war, if I accept it, I can drop the rope. And I just dropped the rope with mom. I'm the bad son. It's such a shame that God gave you a bad son like me.

He shows up every week to visit you, and he won't do it any more often than that.

He shows up every week to visit you, and he won't do it any more often than that.

And I just can't imagine how awful that is.

And I just can't imagine how awful that is.

But it's not the screaming that's the underlying problem.

But it's not the screaming that's the underlying problem.

Well, and actually, if you use a cancer model, all of this narcissism, criticism, negative and dysfunctional stuff that's coming is a metastasis of the emotional cancer. And it metastasizes and you're supposed to come join this. well, I don't want to join this. I don't want to be a part of this, and I'm not going to be. And that I'm not going to call you cancer. I mean, I don't need to.

Well, and actually, if you use a cancer model, all of this narcissism, criticism, negative and dysfunctional stuff that's coming is a metastasis of the emotional cancer. And it metastasizes and you're supposed to come join this. well, I don't want to join this. I don't want to be a part of this, and I'm not going to be. And that I'm not going to call you cancer. I mean, I don't need to.

That's a symptom of how the family has been dysfunctional and toxic. And it can come out in different ways. Narcissism, alcoholism, abuse, workaholism, sex addiction. It can come out in gambling and all kinds of symptomatic ways. But underneath all of that... is an enmeshment to a family whose trance has never been broken. Wow.

That's a symptom of how the family has been dysfunctional and toxic. And it can come out in different ways. Narcissism, alcoholism, abuse, workaholism, sex addiction. It can come out in gambling and all kinds of symptomatic ways. But underneath all of that... is an enmeshment to a family whose trance has never been broken. Wow.

I don't have to disrespect or be mean to people, but I need to recognize what's going on. Because all of this is all pseudo-self that's cancerous, that can just gobble me right up. And no, we're going to keep this at bay.

I don't have to disrespect or be mean to people, but I need to recognize what's going on. Because all of this is all pseudo-self that's cancerous, that can just gobble me right up. And no, we're going to keep this at bay.

And you can hold on to your pseudo self of being a narcissist or a mean person or an unloving parent. You're free to do that. And I've just put a block there when I've said, you're free to do that. And I'm over here.

And you can hold on to your pseudo self of being a narcissist or a mean person or an unloving parent. You're free to do that. And I've just put a block there when I've said, you're free to do that. And I'm over here.

People will always ask me, am I a narcissist? And I'll go, do you ever feel guilty? A narcissist is not going to feel that guilt. What have they done wrong? They're always right. Why would they apologize? You made them do it or they did it. for your good. Jerry is a life and relationship counselor.

People will always ask me, am I a narcissist? And I'll go, do you ever feel guilty? A narcissist is not going to feel that guilt. What have they done wrong? They're always right. Why would they apologize? You made them do it or they did it. for your good. Jerry is a life and relationship counselor.

Remember that you can't solve the problem using the thinking and emotional dynamics that have caused it. So you cannot break out of the box by using everything you know in the box. Two, family is everything, whether you believe it or not. That truth is not going to change. You can resist it. You can do whatever you want with it.

Remember that you can't solve the problem using the thinking and emotional dynamics that have caused it. So you cannot break out of the box by using everything you know in the box. Two, family is everything, whether you believe it or not. That truth is not going to change. You can resist it. You can do whatever you want with it.

But because of who you are and as a human being and growing up in that social unit that has mental and emotional dynamics that go on the rest of your life. So family is everything. Thirdly, calmness is everything. If you want to be less enmeshed, stay more calm because reactivity will only make you enmesh more. So if you're being reactive, you're probably enmeshing more. You're not de-enmeshing.

But because of who you are and as a human being and growing up in that social unit that has mental and emotional dynamics that go on the rest of your life. So family is everything. Thirdly, calmness is everything. If you want to be less enmeshed, stay more calm because reactivity will only make you enmesh more. So if you're being reactive, you're probably enmeshing more. You're not de-enmeshing.

I didn't say be a doormat, I didn't say, but calmness is everything. And if you are calm, you can think, you can regulate your emotions better, you can regulate your thoughts better, and you can see things more clearly. So I have, and I have a video on calmness is everything, but it's just so critical.

I didn't say be a doormat, I didn't say, but calmness is everything. And if you are calm, you can think, you can regulate your emotions better, you can regulate your thoughts better, and you can see things more clearly. So I have, and I have a video on calmness is everything, but it's just so critical.

For a family systems perspective.

For a family systems perspective.

Oh, I think greatness would be finding the true and authentic you. I mean, I don't care how much money you make. I don't care how many companies you own. I've got wealthy clients. I've got poor clients. What are you giving to yourself? Because that will make the world greater.

Oh, I think greatness would be finding the true and authentic you. I mean, I don't care how much money you make. I don't care how many companies you own. I've got wealthy clients. I've got poor clients. What are you giving to yourself? Because that will make the world greater.

The origin family. It's never been broken. And now you're just living it out. Only John's living it out that way. Mary's living it out that way.

The origin family. It's never been broken. And now you're just living it out. Only John's living it out that way. Mary's living it out that way.

if you do that. And that's what I always felt is that the more I can be more self-differentiated, caring myself, aware of myself, I would be able to love differently, give differently, express myself differently in a way that is world-enriching rather than world-detracting.

if you do that. And that's what I always felt is that the more I can be more self-differentiated, caring myself, aware of myself, I would be able to love differently, give differently, express myself differently in a way that is world-enriching rather than world-detracting.

Thank you, Lewis. I've really enjoyed it very much.

Thank you, Lewis. I've really enjoyed it very much.

In some way. And it may not even look like the way mom and dad did it, but the pattern's still there. So people will go, well, I'm not like my parents. Oh, hold on just a second. Let me ask you, but what you're doing is the same theme and it has origins in your family of origin. You may have chosen the opposite, but 180 degrees opposite. from unhealthy is unhealthy.

In some way. And it may not even look like the way mom and dad did it, but the pattern's still there. So people will go, well, I'm not like my parents. Oh, hold on just a second. Let me ask you, but what you're doing is the same theme and it has origins in your family of origin. You may have chosen the opposite, but 180 degrees opposite. from unhealthy is unhealthy.

So people will go, oh, well, I'm all the way over here. Oh, now you're just a class B unhealthy rather than a class A unhealthy person. And you feel superior over them because you're over here. Right. You haven't broken the cycle. You're living the pendulum life. Yeah, I'm not screaming at my partner like my parents did. I'm not screaming at my partner like they did. But I'm controlling.

So people will go, oh, well, I'm all the way over here. Oh, now you're just a class B unhealthy rather than a class A unhealthy person. And you feel superior over them because you're over here. Right. You haven't broken the cycle. You're living the pendulum life. Yeah, I'm not screaming at my partner like my parents did. I'm not screaming at my partner like they did. But I'm controlling.

but I'm being controlling and I still may be self-absorbed or judgmental or any number of other kinds of things.

but I'm being controlling and I still may be self-absorbed or judgmental or any number of other kinds of things.

Let's then take a look at that. Mom and dad, or whoever was narcissistic, hypercritical and judgmental. Now, I then grow up and say, I'm not going to be like that. But what am I to myself? Hypercritical and judgmental. So an adult child of a narcissistic family often will have unbounded guilt, shame, criticalness, hypercriticalness, very hard on themselves.

Let's then take a look at that. Mom and dad, or whoever was narcissistic, hypercritical and judgmental. Now, I then grow up and say, I'm not going to be like that. But what am I to myself? Hypercritical and judgmental. So an adult child of a narcissistic family often will have unbounded guilt, shame, criticalness, hypercriticalness, very hard on themselves.

So they just take the voice from here and just live it inside themselves. Really? Everything is that way. People go, oh, well, they screamed all the time. So many times I've said, so how many times have you internally screamed at yourself? I don't scream at other people. I didn't say other people. I said you. Oh, well, yeah, I can be pretty nasty to me. You know, you stupid.

So they just take the voice from here and just live it inside themselves. Really? Everything is that way. People go, oh, well, they screamed all the time. So many times I've said, so how many times have you internally screamed at yourself? I don't scream at other people. I didn't say other people. I said you. Oh, well, yeah, I can be pretty nasty to me. You know, you stupid.

And I said, you're just reliving this only in a different way. And so it's all embryonic in the family. So everything is happening out here. The problem. And that's what I think. That's why I use the term. The problem is the solution is not near the problem. Also. The problem may not be near the symptom. here I am criticizing myself and cutting myself down internally and hating myself.

And I said, you're just reliving this only in a different way. And so it's all embryonic in the family. So everything is happening out here. The problem. And that's what I think. That's why I use the term. The problem is the solution is not near the problem. Also. The problem may not be near the symptom. here I am criticizing myself and cutting myself down internally and hating myself.

And narcissists, adult children, narcissists can definitely hate themselves because they've been judged and criticized and emotionally hurt so many different ways, shamed. And so this is what they're doing out here. And they're now doing this as adults to themselves internally and going, well, what's the solution? And many will go, don't look at any of that. Let's just try to be nicer to yourself.

And narcissists, adult children, narcissists can definitely hate themselves because they've been judged and criticized and emotionally hurt so many different ways, shamed. And so this is what they're doing out here. And they're now doing this as adults to themselves internally and going, well, what's the solution? And many will go, don't look at any of that. Let's just try to be nicer to yourself.

Which is not bad advice, but it's superficial advice. And it may not hold. And then you'll try it and then give it up. And you'll try it and give it up. Versus, wait a minute, let's get mom and dad out of you. Wow. That's what we want to do. And do you recognize that's not you?

Which is not bad advice, but it's superficial advice. And it may not hold. And then you'll try it and then give it up. And you'll try it and give it up. Versus, wait a minute, let's get mom and dad out of you. Wow. That's what we want to do. And do you recognize that's not you?

When you are criticizing yourself that way, you're gonna be under the hypnosis and the trance that this is me doing it to me. And I go, let me give you some good news. It's not you doing it to you. It's your family still doing it to you through you. There's a difference and that's a huge difference.

When you are criticizing yourself that way, you're gonna be under the hypnosis and the trance that this is me doing it to me. And I go, let me give you some good news. It's not you doing it to you. It's your family still doing it to you through you. There's a difference and that's a huge difference.

So many people grow up under the family trance. They don't understand the dysfunction of their family because it's been normalized. Here I am criticizing myself and cutting myself down internally and hating myself. And many will go, don't look at any of that. Let's just try to be nicer to yourself. Versus, wait a minute, let's get mom and dad out of here.

So many people grow up under the family trance. They don't understand the dysfunction of their family because it's been normalized. Here I am criticizing myself and cutting myself down internally and hating myself. And many will go, don't look at any of that. Let's just try to be nicer to yourself. Versus, wait a minute, let's get mom and dad out of here.

And I think it's a great question. But your question also has within it a certain paradigm, as all questions do. Every question has the answer in it. Every question that someone asks, the answer is in their question. And so you were asking about, so do I separate myself from my family?

And I think it's a great question. But your question also has within it a certain paradigm, as all questions do. Every question has the answer in it. Every question that someone asks, the answer is in their question. And so you were asking about, so do I separate myself from my family?

And certainly if families are abusive and toxic and have no interest in changing, well, then we have to look at some no contact or we may need to go that far. But self-differentiation,

And certainly if families are abusive and toxic and have no interest in changing, well, then we have to look at some no contact or we may need to go that far. But self-differentiation,

What I tend to think when someone has a family that's narcissistic, does the person that I'm working with or talking to or the adult child of the narcissist need greater self-differentiation, which is an emotional state and a maturity state? Or do they need to physically separate? If you physically separate, you still need to emotionally separate. Right. It doesn't solve the problem.

What I tend to think when someone has a family that's narcissistic, does the person that I'm working with or talking to or the adult child of the narcissist need greater self-differentiation, which is an emotional state and a maturity state? Or do they need to physically separate? If you physically separate, you still need to emotionally separate. Right. It doesn't solve the problem.

It doesn't solve the problem. Right, right, right. Now, but I don't want you there being abused, you know, and being taken. And, you know, there's common sense to this as well. But self-differentiation is the, do you have the maturity and respect for yourself that if you had grown up in a healthy family, this is the way you'd be? That's self-differentiation. And people go, well, how can I do that?

It doesn't solve the problem. Right, right, right. Now, but I don't want you there being abused, you know, and being taken. And, you know, there's common sense to this as well. But self-differentiation is the, do you have the maturity and respect for yourself that if you had grown up in a healthy family, this is the way you'd be? That's self-differentiation. And people go, well, how can I do that?

I didn't grow up in a healthy family. It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

I didn't grow up in a healthy family. It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

So let's start now.

So let's start now.

And are you going to take care of yourself or are you not? And adult children or narcissists don't know how to take care of themselves. They've never even been told that's a good thing to do. Many of them would say, well, my church or my whatever teaches me I should not do that because that's selfish. And I go, no, no, that's not what they're teaching.

And are you going to take care of yourself or are you not? And adult children or narcissists don't know how to take care of themselves. They've never even been told that's a good thing to do. Many of them would say, well, my church or my whatever teaches me I should not do that because that's selfish. And I go, no, no, that's not what they're teaching.

Or I don't know, they may be teaching that, certainly possible. But that's not what, that isn't what self-care is about. Self-focus is healthy. We've grown up with no self-focus and only focused on the others in the family. Now we wanna do self-focus Which means inner boundaries, where when you say, well, Jerry, you're such a bad son, and I just think you're worthless. And inside, I go, so what?

Or I don't know, they may be teaching that, certainly possible. But that's not what, that isn't what self-care is about. Self-focus is healthy. We've grown up with no self-focus and only focused on the others in the family. Now we wanna do self-focus Which means inner boundaries, where when you say, well, Jerry, you're such a bad son, and I just think you're worthless. And inside, I go, so what?

And? Because you are you, and I am me. If we are too enmeshed, then what you said will drive me crazy.

And? Because you are you, and I am me. If we are too enmeshed, then what you said will drive me crazy.

I'll be reactive. I'll get mad. I'll say, that's the way you've always treated me. Why don't you stop treating me that way? You've always been this way and da-da-da versus. Okay. Okay. I see that's how you feel. I don't feel that way about me. But it's okay if you do. I mean, you have a right to feel that way about me if you want. I don't care. I hope it helps you out.

I'll be reactive. I'll get mad. I'll say, that's the way you've always treated me. Why don't you stop treating me that way? You've always been this way and da-da-da versus. Okay. Okay. I see that's how you feel. I don't feel that way about me. But it's okay if you do. I mean, you have a right to feel that way about me if you want. I don't care. I hope it helps you out.

One of the things certainly that I found is that so many people grow up under the family trance. And so the family trance, they don't understand the dysfunction of their family because it's been normalized. And I've used the term malignant normalcy.

One of the things certainly that I found is that so many people grow up under the family trance. And so the family trance, they don't understand the dysfunction of their family because it's been normalized. And I've used the term malignant normalcy.

Because then if I grew up abused and I'm in an abusive relationship, I've normalized the abuse as not something I like, but I will accept or it's kind of normal. But that's a malignant normalcy. That's not a normalcy you want to have. And so when people...

Because then if I grew up abused and I'm in an abusive relationship, I've normalized the abuse as not something I like, but I will accept or it's kind of normal. But that's a malignant normalcy. That's not a normalcy you want to have. And so when people...

when I think about helping people see, and really that's what my work is about, is to help people see outside the box and to see in a broader way so much of all the dynamics that are going on within the family. And if you have a narcissistic family, or there's all kinds of other dysfunctional families too, There are some universals that go along with that.

when I think about helping people see, and really that's what my work is about, is to help people see outside the box and to see in a broader way so much of all the dynamics that are going on within the family. And if you have a narcissistic family, or there's all kinds of other dysfunctional families too, There are some universals that go along with that.

But when you say a narcissistic family, I think when you start to recognize, hey, they've always been controlling, they lack empathy, they are guilt and shame, they could be abusive, but they don't have to be abusive to be narcissistic. they love you and they have a plan for your life. And I say love with air quotes.

But when you say a narcissistic family, I think when you start to recognize, hey, they've always been controlling, they lack empathy, they are guilt and shame, they could be abusive, but they don't have to be abusive to be narcissistic. they love you and they have a plan for your life. And I say love with air quotes.

We used to say that in religious circles, God loves you and he has a plan for your life. Well, the narcissist loves you and they have a plan for your life and you better follow it. Wow. Or else. Or else. And the narcissist will be very self-absorbed. Everything is basically about them. It always comes back to them. That's the whole focus.

We used to say that in religious circles, God loves you and he has a plan for your life. Well, the narcissist loves you and they have a plan for your life and you better follow it. Wow. Or else. Or else. And the narcissist will be very self-absorbed. Everything is basically about them. It always comes back to them. That's the whole focus.

And if you have parents who have some of those type of traits, there are other traits, but some of those people will always ask me, am I a narcissist? And I'll go, do you ever feel guilty? Oh, yeah, all the time. Then you're not.

And if you have parents who have some of those type of traits, there are other traits, but some of those people will always ask me, am I a narcissist? And I'll go, do you ever feel guilty? Oh, yeah, all the time. Then you're not.

You're just dysfunctional. No, right. A narcissist is not going to feel that guilt. What have they done wrong? They're always right. So why would I feel guilt about anything or shame? So if you felt that, you're probably less likely to be a narcissist. But a parent can be a narcissistic parent. They can abuse you. They can criticize you. But they'll never go, oh, my bad. They won't apologize.

You're just dysfunctional. No, right. A narcissist is not going to feel that guilt. What have they done wrong? They're always right. So why would I feel guilt about anything or shame? So if you felt that, you're probably less likely to be a narcissist. But a parent can be a narcissistic parent. They can abuse you. They can criticize you. But they'll never go, oh, my bad. They won't apologize.

Why would they apologize? You made them do it, you made them do it, or they did it for your good. So why would I ever need to say, I'm sorry? There's no need to say I'm sorry.

Why would they apologize? You made them do it, you made them do it, or they did it for your good. So why would I ever need to say, I'm sorry? There's no need to say I'm sorry.

That's too superficial. The thing that's going to make them more dysfunctional as an adult is to not break their own cycle from their own past bringing that cycle to their current nuclear family and not knowing it.

That's too superficial. The thing that's going to make them more dysfunctional as an adult is to not break their own cycle from their own past bringing that cycle to their current nuclear family and not knowing it.

And the generational programming. And the generational emotional Wi-Fi that's been going on, and they just bring that right into here, that's going to mess them up more than ever. Now, does abuse and narcissistic meanness, do all those things affect the kid? Of course it does. Screaming and all that stuff, yeah. Exactly. Of course it's going to.

And the generational programming. And the generational emotional Wi-Fi that's been going on, and they just bring that right into here, that's going to mess them up more than ever. Now, does abuse and narcissistic meanness, do all those things affect the kid? Of course it does. Screaming and all that stuff, yeah. Exactly. Of course it's going to.

But it's not the screaming that's the underlying problem.

But it's not the screaming that's the underlying problem.

That's a symptom of how the family has been dysfunctional. and toxic. And it can come out in different ways. Narcissism, alcoholism, abuse, workaholism, sex addiction. It can come out in gambling and all kinds of symptomatic ways. But underneath all of that... is an enmeshment to a family whose trance has never been broken. Wow. The origin family. The origin family. It's never been broken.

That's a symptom of how the family has been dysfunctional. and toxic. And it can come out in different ways. Narcissism, alcoholism, abuse, workaholism, sex addiction. It can come out in gambling and all kinds of symptomatic ways. But underneath all of that... is an enmeshment to a family whose trance has never been broken. Wow. The origin family. The origin family. It's never been broken.

And now you're just living it out. Only John's living it out that way. Mary's living it out that way. But that's the underlying important dynamic.

And now you're just living it out. Only John's living it out that way. Mary's living it out that way. But that's the underlying important dynamic.

In some way. And it may not even look like the way mom and dad did it, but the pattern's still there. So people will go, well, I'm not like my parents. Oh, hold on just a second. Let me ask you, but what you're doing is the same theme, and it has origins in your family of origin. You may have chosen the opposite, but 180 degrees from... Unhealthy is unhealthy.

In some way. And it may not even look like the way mom and dad did it, but the pattern's still there. So people will go, well, I'm not like my parents. Oh, hold on just a second. Let me ask you, but what you're doing is the same theme, and it has origins in your family of origin. You may have chosen the opposite, but 180 degrees from... Unhealthy is unhealthy.

So people go, oh, well, I'm all the way over here. Oh, now you're just a class B unhealthy, right? And a class A unhealthy person. And you feel superior over them because you're over here. Right. You haven't broken the cycle. You're living the pendulum life. Yeah, I'm not screaming at my partner like my parents did. I'm not screaming at my partner like they did. But I'm controlling.

So people go, oh, well, I'm all the way over here. Oh, now you're just a class B unhealthy, right? And a class A unhealthy person. And you feel superior over them because you're over here. Right. You haven't broken the cycle. You're living the pendulum life. Yeah, I'm not screaming at my partner like my parents did. I'm not screaming at my partner like they did. But I'm controlling.

But I'm being controlling. And I still may be self-absorbed or judgmental or... Any number of other kinds of things.

But I'm being controlling. And I still may be self-absorbed or judgmental or... Any number of other kinds of things.

How many families did we grow up in? Yeah, right. And it wasn't as bad as that family, so I got to be grateful for this.

How many families did we grow up in? Yeah, right. And it wasn't as bad as that family, so I got to be grateful for this.

Let's then take a look at that. Mom and dad, or whoever was narcissistic, hypercritical and judgmental. Now, I then grow up and say, I'm not going to be like that. But what am I to myself? Hypercritical and judgmental. So an adult child of a narcissistic family often will have unbounded guilt, shame, criticalness, hypercriticalness, very hard on themselves.

Let's then take a look at that. Mom and dad, or whoever was narcissistic, hypercritical and judgmental. Now, I then grow up and say, I'm not going to be like that. But what am I to myself? Hypercritical and judgmental. So an adult child of a narcissistic family often will have unbounded guilt, shame, criticalness, hypercriticalness, very hard on themselves.

So they just take the voice from here and just live it inside themselves. Really? Everything is that way. People go, oh, well, they screamed all the time. So many times I've said, so how many times have you internally screamed at yourself? I don't scream at other people. I didn't say other people. I said you. Oh, well, yeah, I can be pretty nasty to me. You know, you stupid.

So they just take the voice from here and just live it inside themselves. Really? Everything is that way. People go, oh, well, they screamed all the time. So many times I've said, so how many times have you internally screamed at yourself? I don't scream at other people. I didn't say other people. I said you. Oh, well, yeah, I can be pretty nasty to me. You know, you stupid.

And I said, you're just reliving this only in a different way. And so it's all embryonic in the family. So everything is happening out here. The problem. And that's what I think. That's why I use the term. The problem is the solution is not near the problem. Also. the problem may not be near the symptom. here I am criticizing myself and cutting myself down internally and hating myself.

And I said, you're just reliving this only in a different way. And so it's all embryonic in the family. So everything is happening out here. The problem. And that's what I think. That's why I use the term. The problem is the solution is not near the problem. Also. the problem may not be near the symptom. here I am criticizing myself and cutting myself down internally and hating myself.

And narcissists, adult children, narcissists can definitely hate themselves because they've been judged and criticized and emotionally hurt so many different ways, shamed. And so this is what they're doing out here. And they're now doing this as adults to themselves internally and going, well, what's the solution? And many will go, don't look at any of that. Let's just try to be nicer to yourself.

And narcissists, adult children, narcissists can definitely hate themselves because they've been judged and criticized and emotionally hurt so many different ways, shamed. And so this is what they're doing out here. And they're now doing this as adults to themselves internally and going, well, what's the solution? And many will go, don't look at any of that. Let's just try to be nicer to yourself.

Which is not bad advice, but it's superficial advice. And it may not hold. And then you'll try it and then give it up. And you'll try it and give it up. Versus, wait a minute, let's get mom and dad out of you. Wow. That's what we want to do. And do you recognize that's not you?

Which is not bad advice, but it's superficial advice. And it may not hold. And then you'll try it and then give it up. And you'll try it and give it up. Versus, wait a minute, let's get mom and dad out of you. Wow. That's what we want to do. And do you recognize that's not you?

When you are criticizing yourself that way, you're gonna be under the hypnosis and the trance that this is me doing it to me. And I go, let me give you some good news. It's not you doing it to you. It's your family still doing it to you through you. There's a difference and that's a huge difference.

When you are criticizing yourself that way, you're gonna be under the hypnosis and the trance that this is me doing it to me. And I go, let me give you some good news. It's not you doing it to you. It's your family still doing it to you through you. There's a difference and that's a huge difference.

And I think it's a great question. but your question also has within it a certain paradigm, as all questions do. Every question has the answer in it. Every question that someone asks, the answer is in their question. And so you were asking about, so do I separate myself from my family?

And I think it's a great question. but your question also has within it a certain paradigm, as all questions do. Every question has the answer in it. Every question that someone asks, the answer is in their question. And so you were asking about, so do I separate myself from my family?

Do I, you know, and certainly if someone, if families are abusive and toxic and have no interest in changing, well, then we have to look at some no contact or, you know, we may need to go that far.

Do I, you know, and certainly if someone, if families are abusive and toxic and have no interest in changing, well, then we have to look at some no contact or, you know, we may need to go that far.

But self-differentiation, what I tend to think when someone has a family that's narcissistic, does the person that I'm working with or talking to or the adult child of the narcissist need greater self-differentiation, which is an emotional state and a maturity state? Or do they need to physically separate? If you physically separate, you still need to emotionally separate. Right.

But self-differentiation, what I tend to think when someone has a family that's narcissistic, does the person that I'm working with or talking to or the adult child of the narcissist need greater self-differentiation, which is an emotional state and a maturity state? Or do they need to physically separate? If you physically separate, you still need to emotionally separate. Right.

It doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't solve the problem. Right, right, right. Now, but I don't want you there being abused, you know, and being taken and, you know, there's common sense to this as well. But self-differentiation is the, do you have the maturity and respect for yourself that if you had grown up in a healthy family, this is the way you'd be? That's self differentiation.

It doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't solve the problem. Right, right, right. Now, but I don't want you there being abused, you know, and being taken and, you know, there's common sense to this as well. But self-differentiation is the, do you have the maturity and respect for yourself that if you had grown up in a healthy family, this is the way you'd be? That's self differentiation.

And people go, well, how can I do that? I didn't grow up in a healthy family. Right.

And people go, well, how can I do that? I didn't grow up in a healthy family. Right.

it's never too late to have a happy childhood really so let's start now wow and are you going to take care of yourself or are you not and adult children or narcissists don't know how to take care of themselves they've never even been told that's a good thing to do many of them would say well my church or my whatever teaches me i should not do that because that's selfish

it's never too late to have a happy childhood really so let's start now wow and are you going to take care of yourself or are you not and adult children or narcissists don't know how to take care of themselves they've never even been told that's a good thing to do many of them would say well my church or my whatever teaches me i should not do that because that's selfish

And I go, no, no, that's not what they're teaching. Or I don't know, they may be teaching, that's certainly possible. But that's not what, that isn't what self-care is about. Self-focus is healthy. We've grown up with no self-focus and only focused on the others in the family. Now we wanna do self-focus, which means inner boundaries,

And I go, no, no, that's not what they're teaching. Or I don't know, they may be teaching, that's certainly possible. But that's not what, that isn't what self-care is about. Self-focus is healthy. We've grown up with no self-focus and only focused on the others in the family. Now we wanna do self-focus, which means inner boundaries,

Where when you say, well, Jerry, you're, you know, you're such a bad son and I just think you're worthless. And inside I go, so what? And because you are you and I am me. If we are too enmeshed, then what you said will drive me crazy.

Where when you say, well, Jerry, you're, you know, you're such a bad son and I just think you're worthless. And inside I go, so what? And because you are you and I am me. If we are too enmeshed, then what you said will drive me crazy.

I'll try to, I'll be reactive. I'll get mad. I'll say, well, that's the way you've always treated me. Why don't you stop treating me that way? You've always been this way and dah, dah, dah versus. Okay. I see that's how you feel. I don't feel that way about me. But it's okay if you do. I mean, you have a right to feel that way about me if you want. I don't care. I hope it helps you out.

I'll try to, I'll be reactive. I'll get mad. I'll say, well, that's the way you've always treated me. Why don't you stop treating me that way? You've always been this way and dah, dah, dah versus. Okay. I see that's how you feel. I don't feel that way about me. But it's okay if you do. I mean, you have a right to feel that way about me if you want. I don't care. I hope it helps you out.

I don't know.

I don't know.

are fantasies. We're still children. I want the parent to love me. I want them to accept me. I want them to take care of my needs. I've always wanted a parent who would care. And I'm not ready to give up that fantasy. Oh, man. And if I could help someone give up those fantasies, They'll grow like nobody's business.

are fantasies. We're still children. I want the parent to love me. I want them to accept me. I want them to take care of my needs. I've always wanted a parent who would care. And I'm not ready to give up that fantasy. Oh, man. And if I could help someone give up those fantasies, They'll grow like nobody's business.

That's part of it. Yes. The trance and what we've learned is normal. And then there's the fantasy of when you don't get it growing up, then you will always be looking for it. I want you to come to me and we work out me helping you to stop looking for it.

That's part of it. Yes. The trance and what we've learned is normal. And then there's the fantasy of when you don't get it growing up, then you will always be looking for it. I want you to come to me and we work out me helping you to stop looking for it.

Beautiful childhood. My parents love me. They need to treat me right. Maybe someday they'll accept me. Maybe it's not. It's a fantasy. It is a fantasy. And fantasies mess up adulthood. Goals don't mess up adulthood, but fantasies do. And emotional fantasies. Sure, sure. And there's creativity and fantasies and things. But this fantasy of I'm going to have a happy childhood.

Beautiful childhood. My parents love me. They need to treat me right. Maybe someday they'll accept me. Maybe it's not. It's a fantasy. It is a fantasy. And fantasies mess up adulthood. Goals don't mess up adulthood, but fantasies do. And emotional fantasies. Sure, sure. And there's creativity and fantasies and things. But this fantasy of I'm going to have a happy childhood.

I'm trying to have a happy childhood. But every time I go back at Christmas time or the holiday time, it always ends up being a mess.

I'm trying to have a happy childhood. But every time I go back at Christmas time or the holiday time, it always ends up being a mess.

And they judge me and they do the same thing. I try to be nicer and I bring more food or I bring the kids or whatever they're trying to do to get this so that their parents will one day go, you are okay.

And they judge me and they do the same thing. I try to be nicer and I bring more food or I bring the kids or whatever they're trying to do to get this so that their parents will one day go, you are okay.

When does parenting end?

When does parenting end?

I hope. Aren't you going to be an adult? That's the goal. Adults don't need a parent.

I hope. Aren't you going to be an adult? That's the goal. Adults don't need a parent.

Adults may wish or want to have mothers and fathers. I'm not saying break up your whole family because you turned 18. I'm talking about parenting. Parenting is parent to child, not parent to adult. Of course, there are exceptions. Of course, there are people with disabilities. I understand there's all kinds of variations. But generally, if I tell people, I go, and what...

Adults may wish or want to have mothers and fathers. I'm not saying break up your whole family because you turned 18. I'm talking about parenting. Parenting is parent to child, not parent to adult. Of course, there are exceptions. Of course, there are people with disabilities. I understand there's all kinds of variations. But generally, if I tell people, I go, and what...

What do you need your parent to do? Well, I need them to treat me right. And I'm going, why do you need to treat them? Why do you need them to treat you better? Why? Well, I'll never be happy if I. There you are. You've just hooked together. You'll never be happy unless this fantasy comes true. And I can already tell you it's not going to come true because it's been going on for 35 years.

What do you need your parent to do? Well, I need them to treat me right. And I'm going, why do you need to treat them? Why do you need them to treat you better? Why? Well, I'll never be happy if I. There you are. You've just hooked together. You'll never be happy unless this fantasy comes true. And I can already tell you it's not going to come true because it's been going on for 35 years.

And I doubt if your parents are going to just one day go, oh, You know, could miracles happen? Of course miracles can happen, but I'm not in the miracle business. So if they do, they do.

And I doubt if your parents are going to just one day go, oh, You know, could miracles happen? Of course miracles can happen, but I'm not in the miracle business. So if they do, they do.

Right. Well, that's because then your self won't develop. You are living a pseudo self, waiting on them to give you a self by them going, you're wonderful and we love you. And the thing is, the same is true with if parents have caused trauma, Once you become an adult, they can no longer fix that for you. Ever. They could say, I'm sorry. They could be remorseful.

Right. Well, that's because then your self won't develop. You are living a pseudo self, waiting on them to give you a self by them going, you're wonderful and we love you. And the thing is, the same is true with if parents have caused trauma, Once you become an adult, they can no longer fix that for you. Ever. They could say, I'm sorry. They could be remorseful.

But I keep telling clients or coaching people, they can't fix it. This is now yours to fix. whatever they did is now yours to fix, not theirs to fix.

But I keep telling clients or coaching people, they can't fix it. This is now yours to fix. whatever they did is now yours to fix, not theirs to fix.

You don't have to fix it still. Exactly. How does that fix it? Right. And so they always go back, I'm going to confront them and tell them, and you're just going to get caught up in the system even deeper.

You don't have to fix it still. Exactly. How does that fix it? Right. And so they always go back, I'm going to confront them and tell them, and you're just going to get caught up in the system even deeper.

You're going to go down in the quicksand even more if you go do that. And I always tell people the time to confront people is when you don't need to. If you need to, you're probably out of sync.

You're going to go down in the quicksand even more if you go do that. And I always tell people the time to confront people is when you don't need to. If you need to, you're probably out of sync.

Yeah. So not that we can't confront some people. I got to confront if they're not giving me my coffee. Sure, sure. But generally, I'm talking about this emotional stuff.

Yeah. So not that we can't confront some people. I got to confront if they're not giving me my coffee. Sure, sure. But generally, I'm talking about this emotional stuff.

Bad things have upsides. Bad things have downsides. Good things have upsides. Good things have downsides. All. but sorry to interrupt.

Bad things have upsides. Bad things have downsides. Good things have upsides. Good things have downsides. All. but sorry to interrupt.

What would be the positive outcome of that? Yeah. You can if you want, but I'm just trying to think what's the utility of it. If it provides something, okay. But I don't know that I would go through all that to try to find them and confront them.

What would be the positive outcome of that? Yeah. You can if you want, but I'm just trying to think what's the utility of it. If it provides something, okay. But I don't know that I would go through all that to try to find them and confront them.

Right. Right. Some ongoing relationship or something. Right.

Right. Right. Some ongoing relationship or something. Right.

Remember that you can't solve the problem using the thinking and emotional dynamics that have caused it. So you cannot break out of the box by using everything you know in the box. Two, family is everything, whether you believe it or not. That truth is not going to change. You can resist it. You can do whatever you want with it.

Remember that you can't solve the problem using the thinking and emotional dynamics that have caused it. So you cannot break out of the box by using everything you know in the box. Two, family is everything, whether you believe it or not. That truth is not going to change. You can resist it. You can do whatever you want with it.

But because of who you are and as a human being and growing up in that social unit that has mental and emotional dynamics that go on the rest of your life. So family is everything. Thirdly, Calmness is everything. If you want to be less enmeshed, stay more calm because reactivity will only make you enmesh more. So if you're being reactive, you're probably enmeshing more. You're not de-enmeshing.

But because of who you are and as a human being and growing up in that social unit that has mental and emotional dynamics that go on the rest of your life. So family is everything. Thirdly, Calmness is everything. If you want to be less enmeshed, stay more calm because reactivity will only make you enmesh more. So if you're being reactive, you're probably enmeshing more. You're not de-enmeshing.

I didn't say be a doormat, I didn't say be, but calmness is everything. And if you are calm, you can think, you can regulate your emotions better, you can regulate your thoughts better, and you can see things more clearly.

I didn't say be a doormat, I didn't say be, but calmness is everything. And if you are calm, you can think, you can regulate your emotions better, you can regulate your thoughts better, and you can see things more clearly.