Jesse Michels

And even in the platonic sense, you always glimpse the light, but you can never stay there.

Like it'll literally eviscerate you.

And so I think a lot of religions, like the esoteric versions of religions, actually normalize into this kind of Kabbalistic Merkabah.

And I'd definitely be considered some sort of heretic in saying this.

And there are all sorts of people who know like way more about religion than me, but...

I would say a lot of religion kind of describes, I think, this ascendance path.

I agree.

I agree.

And I think a lot of, whether it's Ezekiel or I think Jesus experienced this in the book of Acts or Enoch, which, you know, maybe is apocryphal.

Like I'll let the historians debate about that.

You, in Enoch's case, he literally transforms into an angel.

Speaking of, you know, NHI being this aspirational thing, if they are real.

Yeah.

But, you know, in all of those cases, they seem to walk with or commune with God and go up on some sort of vessel or chariot.

I guess, you know, the Jesus translation is a cloud.

It's a chariot in the case of Ezekiel.

But yeah, we were talking earlier about the varieties of religious experience.

And if you have like people who want a Gnostic, like a knowing of God, like they need the experience, right?

You know, like Thomas the Doubter, yeah, the doubter in many cases, you know, would be the archetypal, like you actually need to experience God firsthand.

those sorts of, you know, people would, and in that interpretation, Jesus might not be, you know, some sort of exceptional, you know, extremely, you know, like a one-of-one case that happened to live 2,000 years ago, but like in a state that someone can sort of ascend to.