Jesse Michels

And like, and then you realize that like their work is like this autobiographical, which again, I think it's just impossible to parse and it's better to be honest about that.

So definitely was a reinforcer as far as trying to figure out

what was going on here in right when the pandemic hit actually in, I think it was 2020.

I had two pretty crazy experiences.

You were doing what at the time?

I was investing in startups at a family office, just like in a prosaic, like tech venture job or whatever.

And part of the job was

looping in, we had a speaker series and I would like loop in interesting thinkers.

And so I was exploring some topics around, you know, this sort of stuff back then, but I don't know.

I always thought it would be like a,

funny sort of joke or something.

Like it was, I don't know, it was not a funny joke, but like this compartmentalized part of my life that like, you know, I grew up in my, my dad was interested in Rudolf Steiner and like, he was always interested in like kind of alternative philosophy.

And so like, I always had that growing up, but like.

And his godfather is Rob Sterling, right?

Yeah.

So this is a really trippy synchronicity is his godfather.

Exactly.

literally made the seminal UFO documentary in 1974.

And I didn't even know that until getting into the UFO stuff.

It's just such a bizarre synchronicity.