Jesse Michels

Like de Broglie was this physicist that like, you know, thought about that sort of thing.

So you go back to those debates and you look at like how this stuff was discovered and you look at all of these guys and

And they're all flirting with the idea that the mind has something to do with wave function collapse at one point in their career.

Not all of them ended their careers thinking like that.

You know, Schrodinger sort of famously, you know, disregarded that as like, you know, an explanation, but like he also had a dog whose name was Atman and would finish all his lectures, Atman equals Brahman.

Like these guys were like Eastern thinkers.

And then you get into David Bohm and his sort of implicate order.

David Bohm, by the way, is used by kind of new agey people, but like he was Einstein's smartest student ever.

Like, you know, in a very conventional sense, if you read Heisenberg's Life in Physics, he's musing philosophically about, like, the relationship between consciousness and, you know, the material world.

And it seems pretty non-dualist to me, at least in his speculations.

And then maybe most famously, John von Neumann, who was, like, known to be the highest IQ of all of them, created the mathematical underpinnings of quantum mechanics, a lot of modern computational principles.

He and his colleague Jonathan Wigner, like, at one point, fully had a theory that the mind engaged in wave function collapse.

Then you can go later into people like John Wheeler.

And these are all guys that any conventional physicist would, like...

not really argue with contributed to the bedrock of what we're standing on today.

You go later into John Wheeler's participatory universe and his like delayed, you know, choice, you know, stuff.

And like, he goes right up until parapsychology, but doesn't, you know, doesn't say that, you know, the mind engages in wave function collapse.

The point is, is like a modern, you know, quantum,

physicist would be way more dogmatic about the mind not engaging in quantum wave function collapse than the original godfathers of this topic.

Meanwhile, speaking of going down the tree trunk of physics and taking another branch...