Jesse Michels

And I think that is the case.

So but here's what I would say is I would walk back the claims of most people in UFO world.

Most people in UFO world are like, there are definitely aliens visiting us.

And they're from these three star systems.

And you have reptilians and Nordics and great, you know.

And so I would say, you know, my extraordinary claim is like, there's something worthy of investigation here.

Like, clearly, you know.

If you go bolder in your claim, I do think you need more evidence for which we don't necessarily have that evidence.

I think you have to have an extremely open kind of aperture as far as what conclusions you draw from the evidence.

But ignoring the evidence, I think, that's a tragedy.

That's like where then I think you fall into kind of the other side, like dogmatic skepticism.

I think science is a constant process of the Scylla and Charybdis.

The two failure modes are extreme belief in everything.

Everything is everything.

And, you know, like A and B can't be true if they're mutually exclusive.

exclusive, which like we engage in all the time in UFO world or whatever.

And then the other side is extreme dogmatic skepticism where the evidence could literally be staring you in the face and you just won't look at it.

You won't look at the data set.

And I've had arguments, you know, I like did this informal debate with Michael Shermer, who's a great skeptic.

Yeah.