Jesse Michels

And you can say there are classic motifs people do see.

These gray alien beings do seem to show up consistently.

These sort of perfectly chiseled Nordics seem to show up, which is really strange, right?

The reptilian thing, actually, there's some evidence out there that people experience abductions with these sorts of beings.

But, I mean, I think you're in really weird territory if you start to claim that, like, we know that these beings come from this discrete race from the star system.

I think you need a lot of evidence for that, and I don't think we have it.

So, like, all I can say is, like...

we're probably not at the top of the food chain and there's like something else going on.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think that's a great framing because I think...

in isolation, like most cases are probably, you can probably corroborate them to the point of being like, there's probably something that happened there.

And then I think they'll always be skeptics in any individual case.

And I would point people to, there's a, Edgar Mitchell was an Apollo astronaut in the Apollo 14 mission.

And he came back and he started basically systematically studying this stuff because he thought we were not alone in the universe.

And so I'd point people to

the free Edgar Mitchell database of abduction cases.

And they can go through a lot of these cases and they can talk to a lot of these people themselves.

I think it's probably important if you are somebody who is earnestly interested in the subject to not just take my word for, you know, any of these sorts of stories and to try to meet, you know, experiencers themselves and be like, you know, what happened?

Like, and, and go into like, you know, are you sure you're not making that up?

And like, be as skeptical as you sort of want.