Jesse Michels

And so they then like turn into these like runaway, like escape from civilian bureaucracy oversight groups.

And so like, does this exist in that sort of, you know, capacity?

I don't know.

I don't have a good answer, but it's very strange.

And it's very strange when you get to a certain level of conviction on it, because it's, I'm like, what's going on?

Like, is somebody going to contact me?

And then you do occasionally get higher, like literally this guy who ran a $2 billion P&L

uh an executive at northrop grumman who's responsible for the b2 you know bomber where i make this argument that townsend brown's not anti-gravity work but his other work made it into the b2 stealth bomber he went on my show and he's like i'm like i basically was to a crowd full of like tech people i'm like you know the ufo subject is frustratingly kind of hard you know it's not really actionable like per the beginning of our conversation

And I'm like, is there any place you would look at to like invest in technology?

And he goes, watch Jesse's video on Thomas Townsend Brown.

And so you have this guy who's like an exec at Northrop hinting that this stuff is real.

And then I'm like, okay, if this is real, it like could take us to the stars in a way that like SpaceX can't.

And yet, I don't know.

Maybe it's because the thumbnails on my YouTube channel look kind of ridiculous because that's how you have to bootstrap your distribution online.

I don't know.

Seriously, I don't know.

But I'd love for there to be more progress made on this.

Yeah, so I think looking to religion, kind of apocryphal ancient stories can be really illustrative of what is possibly going on today.

You mentioned Diana Pasolka.

She's a great religious studies professor at UNC Wilmington.