Jesse Michels

And Jacques Vallée, who I, you know, mentioned earlier, this kind of French godfather of ufology, is actually J. Allen Hynek's assistant.

And he takes part in that documentary, which is really interesting.

And then in the 80s, you have the advent of stealth craft.

So like aircrafts that, you know, they have their radar cross sections reduced and, you know, they can evade ground systems, you know, for the Soviets or the Chinese.

And so you have the F-117, the B-2 stealth bomber.

And I think a lot of games get played around calling those UFOs kind of, you know, the U-2 spy plane, the SR-71.

Before that, I think we're mistaken for UFOs.

So there's this constant sort of cross, you know, wiring of like what's ours, what's theirs sort of thing.

And it's important to stay kind of hardheaded about that.

But you also have some stories that come out in the 80s around like this guy, Bob Lazar, who claims that he's at S4 Area 51 and he's working directly on UFOs, on reverse engineering UFOs.

And he gets the job through Edward Teller, who's father of the hydrogen bomb.

And it's this crazy story that's like really hard to debunk.

Like the best debunkers probably have trouble, you know, denying that he worked at Area 51.

And a lot of the core details seem to check and actually get corroborated over time.

And this is Joe Rogan's number one viewed episode of all time as Bob Lazar.

Um, and it's still kind of, you know, UFOs are still kind of in the lore, not necessarily like as popular as they are today.

Then in 2017, you have this New York times article written by Leslie Kane.

And, um, basically, um,

This outs that there were these UFO, not necessarily reverse engineering programs, but study groups going on from 2007 to 2012, this program called OSAP.

And this took place primarily at Skinwalker Ranch, which seems to be like a weird portal of sorts where like a lot of weird electromagnetic anomalies occur.