Jesse Michels

is best friends with the guy who's the head of the NRA and this gun champion.

That seems interesting to me.

Is there something there?

You keep asking me questions as if I might know the answer.

I don't know.

You know, we're speculating.

We're in kind of really murky territory.

It's out of control.

And this is what I'm getting at.

And this is a really weird, deep conspiratorial thread of which we've, you know, developed a few here.

But it seems like the things Jolly West are involved with, and this cuts to Tom O'Neill's thesis with chaos, right?

is the construction of somebody like a Manson because he looked and talked and walked like a hippie when counterculture was at its greatest threat to, again, people like J. Edgar Hoover who were running the FBI at the time, the State Department.

What's that?

What do you mean?

J. Edgar Hoover?

They were straight guys.

Oh, exactly.

Well, speaking of the, you know, kind of proverbial, you know.

Except he wasn't exactly totally straight.

Well, he was a cross, he was into cross-dressing and they had all this compliment on him.