Jesse Michels

Augustine, where he starts out.

struggling with faith and kind of like a life of the party sort of guy.

And he has this really interesting experience at the top of this mountain.

And he's with Brother Leo, this confidant who's kind of documenting this whole experience and essentially sees, and she does the original translation in Greek and, or I think it's in Latin, sorry.

And it's a flaming torch.

And he receives what he says, you know, this wound in the flesh and it's the stigmata.

But then she looks at it and she's like, well, he died a year later from the stigmata.

And actually the stigmata looks a lot more like just electromagnetic burns.

And so she gives this manuscript of stories like, you know, St.

Francis of Assisi's to her friend.

And her friend goes, this reads like a Steven Spielberg script.

Like this is not, this looks exactly like what UFO stories are today.

And she looks into the work of John Mack at Harvard University.

And she's like, oh, my God, like if you one to one replace angel with alien or demon with alien, you know, or, you know, in certain cases, Jesus or angels with with aliens.

It seems very similar.

The Ecstasy of St.

Teresa is another example, like over and over and over again.

And so American Cosmic is her book, which is it's an amazing book because.

You see the first half of her book being like the UFO.

She's writing about it in this kind of meta sociological, like as a professor would way where she's like, this is kind of a modern psychosocial phenomena.