Jesse Michels

And it's kind of crafted in like a Disney studio or whatever.

And she even talks about Betty and Barney Hill being abducted in 1961.

She talks about how the CBS show Outer Limits.

depicts aliens with eyes being wrapped around their head just like they are seeing.

And so she's like basically saying maybe our perceptions are being shaded by media.

And so I'm reading this book and I'm like, this is very well-reasoned.

You know, this is like this woman, she's going to debunk, she's going to explain this whole thing.

And then you see her fall into this belief system where she's like, oh my God, what I've been looking at for the, you know, not only Catholic stuff, but the Hebrew Merkabah tradition, you know, the Ezekiel, Ezekiel's chariots and that sort of thing.

A lot of this stuff just comports with modern UFO lore.

And maybe religion is this ongoing process today.

And it's,

think for a lot of people that's somehow subversive of religion like don't smear religion with your you know alien stories sort of thing i would say it's reinforcing of religion and i wouldn't call the current thing alien i would just call the current thing an empirical observable like you can actually re-merge science and the spirit which bifurcated around the enlightenment

where you had Newton, who was like an alchemist, and then you end up with like David Hume, who's like this natural philosopher, and now you have Richard Dawkins, who's like, it's like ardent, shrill atheist.

I think you could re-merge those things if you have this empirical observable phenomena where you're like, these are happening at nuclear sites,

And they comport with things happening in the Bible.

Like, oh my God, that's crazy.

So I love her work on that.

And she's really an heir to Jacques Vallée who writes about this whole thing as like, he actually was writing originally around like kind of, um,

new psychological thought was kind of this burgeoning field where you had people like Zimbardo and you had these behavioral psychologists, guys like B.F.

Skinner and intermittent reinforcement.