Jim VandeHei

And I think that that's just a safer place for the Post to play than it would be to do kind of trying to be a knockoff of The New York Times, which has a much, much bigger base to start with.

Listen, I think parts of that critique are very fair.

I do think that the Post was more ideological than it led on.

I don't think that that's the reason for its demise.

I think you're right.

Like had it doubled down on Democracy Dies in Darkness and been more of a resistance, like proudly resistance publication, they would probably be thriving.

And, well, Jim, you're nuts.

Well, am I?

Why is The Atlantic thriving?

Why is The New York Times thriving?

And so the actual data on people who made that choice as a business strategy shows that it can work.

I think it's that they have no identity.

I think what conservatives get wrong about media, especially in Washington, is like even if you're perceived as ideological, even if you're seen as part of like the enemy, if you are writing things that they know they have to reckon with and they know to be true, they continue to do business with you.

There's such a WWF mentality.

uh, kind of a piece of journalism that people don't get of like Trump.

I hate the media.

I hate the media.

And yet he's talking to more reporters in one day than any president I've ever met has talked to reporters in a year.

Like they're interacting with you.

Like we have days where the Trump white house hates us and loves us.