J.J. Levenske
Appearances
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
One of the things that was successful for me was always paying it forward. And that's a common phrase now. But when I saw someone in need, I would give, whether it was time, energy, knowledge, whatever. You know, you're talking about Kent and Al and all those people. Yeah. So it's one thing to ask. But other thing is don't keep score.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Pretty typical. So now you understand why the big, large general contractors, if you look at them, the only reason they're successful is they've been in business 20, 30 years. And they just keep, you know, once you get big enough, then they self-insure, they self-bond, and you do other things. They find a point here. Yeah, and you reinvest.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
investing in assets at that time, you know, as far on the balance sheet and the P&L. Okay. So where I was going, well, is that Mark and I said, he had a passion for it. And I said, and I agreed, let's bring MP&E, mechanical, plumbing, electrical in-house, and let's do it not only to increase enterprise value, but let's also do it as a value add to our customers.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Because in general contracting, those are typically some of your three biggest contracts. And they can also be your three biggest pinch points. Well, if we're controlling our own nest, Then we have no excuse. If we perform well, we're a hero. If we screw it up, then we're a zero. But at least we can control it. We don't have to rely on partnerships anymore. And so that's what launched it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And we're now a little over two years into that wallet share type business attitude. And it's just within the last six months that it's finally skyrocketed. And just before we came on there, I told you we made our first acquisition of a plumbing company in San Antonio. And we're excited just to grow it. A commercial. Yep. Well, no. Great question, Tommy.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
In our general contracting, we're only in commercial. On our mechanical, plumbing, and electrical, both new construction and service, and it varies, you know, we try to diversify. But no, that is residential and commercial. Huh. Yep. That's awesome. You know, it's much like Al Levy. He's got, you know... He's my main mentor. Yeah, you know, it's his story, but different. Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Well, just like you, you might as well tell it all. And that is when we sit around our private table where our target is 500 million a year with a blended EBIT of, you know, you're looking at somewhere 20 some percent. It was just achievable if you look at all of that through service and new construction.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And our goal, right, wrong, or indifferent, is we look at instead of doing big penetration in single markets, having kind of a cross-branded thing in multiple markets to take out the sine wave so that if Phoenix collapses, will Houston still be sustainable? If Jacksonville collapses, is Atlanta, will the sine wave kind of just even itself out? Right.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
and much like what you did we'll definitely entertain probably a strategic private equity sponsor yep and um only so that against making up numbers let's say if there was a 50 to 75 million dollar infusion or somewhere in that range does that now allow us to go from two to three hundred million up to seven or eight hundred million you and i both know those companies love that kind of growth attitude and if you can lay it out on paper in the pro forma
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
which we've built the business plan already. They're like, yep, those numbers. But just like you, I'm not in any big hurry to sell. I'm in more of a hurry to take that investment and grow it to something even better.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Well, and you hit the nail on the head as... I have the empathy of the blue collar type thing because that's the way I was raised, right? And when I look at what you're doing, what we're doing is we're creating jobs and lifestyles for people. And like your book in Elevate, when you talk about how You've created a plan where if they want to be a millionaire, here's how you get there. Go.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
I want to create 20 millionaires. And so do you. You know, that kind of thing. That legacy, if I could leave that behind, that would make me happier than looking at my own balance sheet personally, right? Because it's like, wow.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
You know, if you can take that person that came from nothing and allow them an environment where they're fostered into growing that, that has a higher meaning to me going to my grave than looking at what I'm handing off to my kids for an inheritance, right?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Well, it's funny you say that because I always tell people that I really didn't discover my entrepreneurship until I was in, you know, I'm 52 now. It was probably only the last five to six years. And it's funny because I was very conservative all up and through my 40s. For what? Because then I realized what you finally had realized. Fortunately, at a younger age, it's like, hold it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
I could redo this tomorrow. Why am I worrying about, why am I concentrating and worrying about protecting that? That isn't shit, right? Come over here, invest in yourself, invest in your people, blow it through the roof. If you fail, get back on the horse and start over again. Yeah. And it's funny because it takes a good swift kick to kind of realize that.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And if you're wired that way, it's almost empowering. If you live in fear of it, well, then it's disabling or whatever I want to say. And you know what I'm talking about is you see people either they have it or they don't.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Well, it's funny you say that. And without patronizing you... you know, when I first met you, we talked and just for audience sake, we actually came through your tour and you did a great job and your team did a great job. And it's funny because I still, in our weekly meetings, your name still comes up. Well, what would Tommy do? But my point is, I have a point here.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
The point is, is that when I was your age, I don't know if we had
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
the mentor protege type relationships that we have now through media through the ability of you know whether it's ken goodrich you you know if someone came to me and asked the same thing would i open the doors absolutely because just like you allowed us to come into your business i would allow someone else to come in because that's kind of how the new world works right but when i was younger we really didn't have those opportunities everybody was like this right oh yeah
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
I mean, you you had to, you know, unless you were part of the mob, you weren't getting in. Yeah, I agree. And so I think, you know, for the young entrepreneurs that are out there, ask, ask, ask and be humble. And people will give you more information than you can even even tolerate. But then what you do with it, that's the special sauce.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And you were a guest.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
It's almost the two ends of two... It's the end of both spectrums. It's super small and super big, but not as many middle, at least through my lens. So what did you see out there? I'm just curious. I've never done business. Well, what it was, was it was because... How would I describe it? I was in the large, the extremely large, like multinational. And I'll never forget.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Let me talk about the exit time because I think this kind of puts context to it. My direct mentor and boss came to me and said, JJ, You were doing all the right things, okay? But I'm going to give you some advice. Get the hell out of here. I go, what? And it kind of, like, it kicked me in the nuts, right? Because I was like, I loved it. Like, I was traveling all over the world, over the country.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
I was given responsibility. You know, I kept taking it, succeeding, failing forward too, you know? And I made mistakes. Don't kid yourself. But I always kept grinding and working. Basically, I just outworked them. I outworked my British counterparts. But he said, here's the thing. You will never grow any further because you're not a Brit. And we're still a British company at the end of the day.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Well, thanks for having me on.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Now, that was 25 years ago. So have things changed? Probably. But at that time, in the 90s, it was still, I don't know what the word is, secular prejudice, whatever. Sounds like a union. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But through his advice, he was an outlier in his company. Well, then it gets even weirder is because he was not from that part of England where the company was based. He was an outlier.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
So it even gets back to that. Like, are you from Manchester or Birmingham or London, right? And you're talking about, forget black and white and racial type segregation, just where the hell you grow up. Which soccer team is your favorite team? It's like...
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
But now we were just, we were just back over there this last year ago, about now, and touring. And it felt a lot different from when I was over there before. I wouldn't say it's more Americanized, but there's been, you can tell there's been a lot more entrepreneurship over there, right? You know, ever since the globalization.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Well, then leave.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Great question. So like I said, I'm 52 now. So I've been in the business for over 30 years. And I did the proverbial and quintessential up through the ranks type thing. Started off, went to college, actually got a construction management degree from Midwestern College, and then dove right in. Started doing custom homes, whatever.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Yeah, but that's at your discretion and in your means.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
You do subconsciously, but I tell you what, you have tremendous freedom and opportunities open up exponentially when you do not keep score. Like I think of when I pay it forward, when someone calls and even if the answer is no, find a yes, right? Like, hold on, I can't take care of you, but give me 10 minutes and I'll find three other people that might be a befitting match.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Well, it's again, without patronizing you, it's funny because I had the attitude, I think the same as you until I read your book that was hard to verbalize it where it's, it's create a brand and create an ethos around your culture and organization where people are calling you to come work for you. Not you recruit. You shouldn't have to use Indeed or Monster or anything, right?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Who's the, is it Jody? Jody Underhill. Yeah, you're marketing. Right. Rabbit hire. Yeah. So when you look at that, if you can, back to what you were saying, is if you can execute on your culture to where people want to come to you, you've already beat 90% of your competition, maybe 95.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Okay, so here's the caveat. And again, maybe this just comes from experience and age. It's one thing for us as CEO or whatever C-suite to want to finally get over that hump of you're not a control freak anymore and you're willing to hire someone smarter than you in the room.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Okay, this is where the secret sauce to me, though, is the greatest companies two to three years from now will be the ones that can take that attitude down to three levels.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
But I would say that was my second job that gave me kind of the oomph And that was, I was in Albuquerque, New Mexico back in the mid-90s. And I got a call from a buddy and said, hey, there's this global multinational company based... It just so happens their North American operation is back in Minneapolis. Would you ever move back? And I was like, yeah, that sounds exciting.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
So when your VP can have that same attitude as you, where they're looking at whatever, you know, I think of a project manager or whatever, in your case, maybe a sales manager, and where they can just get excited about, hey, look at Susie. She is so talented. Susie, get in here. I want to talk to you. Do you have any aspirations of taking my seat? Because I'm going to help you get there.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Now, that person, they don't realize by doing that, you're making the company better and you're creating not an empath, but an environment and a culture where that just becomes almost intoxicating in a good way, right? Because you've proven it. All the stuff that you share on all your different media channels, when you get that right, the numbers take care of themselves.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And then everything else we've talked about, It's just attracted. It's attracted. It's attracted. But until you get that nucleus right. But again, it's really hit me over the last few months, Tommy, that you have to have that attitude just not in the C-suite.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
It's got to come down at other levels where they cannot be afraid to promote within or without or from outside and have people come in that are smarter than them and explain to them. Use your own stories and testimonies to say, listen, I'm still working here. Because just like AI, okay? AI is not going to replace me. It's going to augment me. It's going to make me better.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
But I then can clear a path for someone else and they can come in and do an even better job than me. Right.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
How do you feel about cognitive versus behavioral type things?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And I was the type of kid where I grew up in a community where when someone challenged you, you took it, right? And I know you can resonate. It's like, you go. You don't say no. You don't say maybe you say F yes. And then just figure it out as you go. So having jumped into that, I worked for a British firm. The main reason they hired me, I know, was because I had done a stint in the UK.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Great question. We're probably where you were, you know, I don't know, two or three stages ago. So I'll answer it. Like I said, a couple of years ago, I got to CFO. Then in the last six months, I stepped down as CEO, got a CEO to come in that has been through all this for growth, acquisition, all that kind of stuff. And watching the demeanor of him back again to the EQ is very high. Okay.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And that was important to me because I couldn't replace me with just a, It was important that someone has done this before that was smarter than me in that capacity, right? But for me, the linchpin was that EQ part you talked about. So we're kind of building that out. We're looking... We've done a fractional CHRO right now.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And that's been a big, big deal for me because human capital is the last frontier for all of us. You can have systems, AI, all the things. We can talk about marketing. All of it's important, Tommy. But right now...
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
When I look at the companies that are going from good to great, to have Jim Collins quote, is those that are focusing on human capital and understanding how to leverage that, they're going to be the winner standing. And I think when you were on my podcast, we talked about is those that don't have that coupled with AI are going to be left in the dust.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And it's going to be a lot of roll-ups and a lot of M&A happening. Okay. Yeah. I mean, a lot. If you thought it was a lot in the past five years, it's going to even be, I think, exponentially more going forward.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
In college, I'd done a year over there as a foreign exchange student type thing. So they felt that I understood the British mentality and all those kind of things. So anyway, I got thrown into the wolves with that and I loved every minute of it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
But let me finish your question about the org chart. The thing it's even been in the last few months since we talked is that as I've done the deep dive in AI, is looking at how AI can augment every role in the organization so that the org chart starts to look different. I'm not trying to eliminate fluff, but I'm trying to eliminate fluff. And it's like, hold it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
I would much rather have someone that can succeed going this way or even horizontally. I don't care. It can be a mishmash. But use AI for what it's worth to eliminate jobs that aren't going to exist anymore. And I think that is where are we on the forefront of that? Hell no.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
But I know that we're not at the tail end of it like a lot of my competitors are where they're just going, yeah, we're doing it. I got this and this, and I'm not going to demean any roles or jobs on the podcast, but there's going to be jobs that are eliminated. Okay. But that's fine. Guess what? Because of it, there's going to be new jobs over here that are created that are doing those.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
So to answer your question, I think it's a dynamic org chart that we're looking at right now and how we build that out so that we understand the dynamic and the influence of change so we can embrace it instead of being fearful of it. Hopefully that answers your question on the org chart.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
But what I found was I was sitting around the table and I understood construction, but I felt stupid because I was sitting with major CEOs and high profile people in these... big industrial and food primary. Think of like General Mills, Pillsbury, ConAgra, you know, those kinds of corporate giants. And I'm sitting there telling these people that are my age now what to do.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
For me, I saw my glass ceiling though. And I said, I'm not the CEO at 500 million. I just don't have it in me because there's too many things that I have to have connection to. Primarily, I love the teammates, right? I'm still a builder at heart. So I want to be in the trenches with our people, knowing that I can help effectuate change to the marketplace.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
So by looking in the mirror and saying that, yeah, I need that. I'm not arguing with you, Tommy. I'm just saying for me, it was very easy to give that up. Because now in the last six to eight weeks, I've had a lot more fun. Like I'm engaged again. Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Whereas I was getting disengaged as CEO because when you're going through hyper growth, you're pulled in directions that were not befitting of my talents. And so I looked at it going, oh, now I can get back. And I'm seeing a better interaction with the employees where like even today before coming here, it was watching them going, JJ, can you help with this?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
It was something that I could do in my sleep, but it made a huge impact on them where,
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
you know eight weeks ago i was disconnected where they couldn't reach me because i'm so busy doing ceo stuff so it's not like i've i don't know you know like i took i just took a title relegation to president and co-founder big deal i don't give a crap about the title yeah no you're right you know my job as the ceo is literally to do myself useless i don't even think people comprehend what i'm talking about
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
We'll talk about it. I don't know which book. I want to be Mr. Relevant.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And I'm like, this is stupid. I'm a 20 some year old. I'm advising them. And I don't know shit from apple butter about this stuff. So I decided to go back at night school and doing my MBA. And it was there that I found Tommy that I finally learned how to learn. And I said, you can resonate with this. It's like, you go through stages of life and you finally, you like, you fake it to make it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
The work doesn't stop. The hours don't stop. It's just, it's different focus though.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
It's just, here's how we do it. But you're eating the elephant one bite at a time. Because I remember... It was either your book or one of the things it's like, remember when you hit the milestone of a hundred million? Well then, okay, what's next? Like you don't sit there and check out and go, all right, let's cash all the chips and I'm done. No, it's okay. What's the next goal?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Then what's the next goal? What's the next goal?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
You, I would have never imagined.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And that is when I could finally figure out how to learn again. And it got me excited about construction again. So, and this was pre-internet of things. So it was, I had to go to night school at the Mall of America in these back rooms in Minneapolis and stuff. So it really excited me. Then I would, to hit fast forward, kind of went through what I call that
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Well, I think it's the same as what, I don't think there's a difference between blue collar, white collar when it comes to that. It was ask, ask, ask, jump in, jump in, fail forward. I love to see day in and day out. You have technicians, we have technicians. And the ones that make my heart murmur are the ones that come in, said, hey, I did this and I failed, but this is what I did to correct it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
and you pull them aside and you have a teaching moment and go, thank God you took the risk, okay? Thank you for doing that on behalf of Blue Wave. Because if you would have done nothing, You did nothing. Guess what? You didn't move the needle. You didn't go down or up. You just stayed stagnant. Well, guess what? If you do that over 30 years, that's exactly where you're going to end up. Okay?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
You're almost better off trying and failing than not trying at all. And so when I look at the attitude of anyone in the organization, it's do that. Like I'm talking to my oldest son right now. He's about ready to get out of the Marine Corps.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
and i think through the marine corps and through watching hopefully me being somewhat of a positive influence on him he realizes take the risk and shit will happen more good than bad but if you don't take the risk at all that's you're just going to be a box checker the rest of your life and if that's what you desire great but back to what you were saying is the american principle and the freedoms that we were provided
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
We were given all those opportunities. Go seize them. Don't sit there and be, and I'm not being political either, but don't just be a socialist trying to collect something. Okay, go contribute. Whether it's contribute to someone's life, back to what you said, contribute to yourself, your growth, whether it's physical, mental, spiritual, I don't care what it is, do something, right?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And, uh, so yeah, for the entrepreneurial thing, take what I said earlier is don't wait. Don't be so conservative. Like I was in my thirties and forties or the most part of it where if you feel like entrepreneurial stuff drives you, then you are an entrepreneur. Go take a risk. What are you gonna do?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Like Tommy and I said, if you fail, go back, mortgage your house for the fifth time and start over again. Who gives a shit?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
10 to 15 years of just checking the box type stuff. Got married, had kids, and just worked my way up like project manager. And pretty soon, you know, I'm Neil Hefe. I was in a different part of Minnesota and kind of the president or the go-to C-suite guy in these organizations. Small family office type stuff. But we still did pretty good revenue. But basically, it was general contracting.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And shoulda, coulda, woulda.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Oh, I agree. No, I totally agree with you.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
To clarify a time, I was speaking to the audience that I felt could be like me. I didn't want them to live in the shadows for 10 to 15 years. If they knew they were not sure and they were like me, where there was just trepidation and fear. Go take that risk. Yes, there are people that it's not destined for. I totally agree.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
But those that are lying in the shadows and say, well, I feel it, but I'm just too afraid. No, I'm talking to those people. Go try it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
There were some spinoffs where we had a damage restoration company, things like that. So I got exposed to, I think, your world of home services. It fast forward, my wife and I were kind of bored with the Midwest, you know, winter kind of kills you up there.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Tommy, did we drag you through the river as a child?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Back in Michigan, did we, you know, whatever.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Tell me I got one more. Yeah, no, I still wanted to ask you something. I just thought of something that, and we talked about asking, but I want to talk about giving. I'll tell you one of the things that was successful for me was always paying it forward. And that's a common phrase now, but when I saw someone in need, I would give, whether it was time, energy, knowledge, whatever.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
You know, like you're talking about Kent and Al and all those people. So it's one thing to ask, But other thing is don't keep score. You do subconsciously, but I tell you what, you have tremendous freedom and opportunities open up exponentially when you do not keep score. Like I think of when I pay it forward, when someone calls and even if the answer is no, find a yes, right?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Like, hold on, I can't take care of you, but give me 10 minutes and I'll find three other people that might be a befitting match. We get those calls all the time as general contractors. We just can't, we're not the right fit, right? But I might give it to 10 competitors. And then whammo, a year and a half from now, I get the call. Hey, do you remember me, JJ? I'm like, nope.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Like, well, you paid it forward with Bob and Bob ended up remodeling my house because you don't do residential. Well, guess what? I own a business. Now I'm adding on to my business. Will you do it for me? Whammo. I wasn't expecting that. Didn't think anything of it. But here's the reality. They found a good residential contractor. That residential contractor found a new, a good owner.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And the other thing was we were at that midlife crisis kind of moment of we saw all of our friends getting divorced and it kind of turned into the battle of the Joneses, you know, like who's got the bigger boat, who's got the bigger house. We're like, maybe it's time that we look at opportunities. So that's when we decided to move to Arizona between 2012 and 2013. Came down here, walked away.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
They had a transaction. They both made money. And guess what? It cost me nothing. It cost me time, but I did something good. It made me feel good. And then whammo, I still got work. So it's not just about asking, but it's also about giving.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Oh, you mean like when you do the podcast?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Well, I've got to give a shout-out to you. Yours are good. Thank you. Jim Collins has wonderful books. Patrick Lencioni. The Ideal Team Player. There's a number of ones. In the last year, I read, do you remember Bold? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
It's a peer-to-peer bonus. That was a great book. Yep. Great book. I don't know.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
I don't know. Much like you, so I audible. This morning I was up, couldn't sleep. Not because I was stressed. I'm like a sun guy. This time of the year, I just don't sleep as much because it's light out all the time. So I'm about like four something. I'm like, well, screw it. I'm going to go for my walk. Put on my Bose noise cancel because I got to stay focused.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And I was listening to, you know, I don't even know which one I'm listening to right now. But that is my, much like you, that's my Zen moment. Because that's what I'm absorbing. I'm investing in me. It's called my spirituality part of like, I listen to it, absorb it. And then you think of, okay, what can I implement or what can I make better? So I encourage everyone.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Mind you, I walked away from the president of a very successful organization. I didn't have equity, but my partners did at the time. And that was a hard move because we had built something very special. I always told people during that tenure, Tommy, that we had the ability...
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
I can't physically read anymore. Like I cannot read a book anymore at my age. I fall asleep in five seconds, but I can listen for hours on end. I don't know. Yeah. Again, how my brain works, but that's why I love audible. I just go through books like crazy. That's awesome. So I could, I'm sure I could give you a, you look at my playlist somewhere.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Much like you, LinkedIn, I'm all over social media. And the cool part is on my contacts, my cell phone's on there, my personal email, everyone can get ahold of me. And I haven't gotten to my popularity stage like you where I can't answer all my emails, but I take great pride in answering everyone's emails. I still get back to trade partners when they want to know bid results for stuff.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And I like personalizing it. I'll be like, hey, you know what? You were high. Well, how high? And I'll tell them. I don't blow smoke up their ass. I'll respond to everyone. That's fantastic.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
I wish I could go to your freedom event in September. I think it's about humility. I lost my dad a couple of years ago from a long bout of cancer. And it was funny about that same time I was turning 50 and it's, I've never been an age guy. Like age has never bothered me because I've, I've been about the same weight as I was in high school. Never really had health problems, but I,
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
When that coupled with when I said I saw my glass ceiling and I went through my spiritual awakening, that was the part where I was like, hey, what are you doing all this for? And so if that's the takeaway, it's find out what that is for you and then just go live your life based on that kind of centric type attitude. And I think you said it best is you have to devote some time for yourself.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
When I get off that, which I did recently, a couple months ago, I got off of it where I was just too into everything else and I wasn't on me. I saw the company suffer when I went back to invest it in me. And then I saw the results. The company then did better again. So I'm glad you brought that up earlier because if you're not right with yourself, you're not going to be a good leader.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
A hundred percent invest in yourself, JJ.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Thanks for having me on boss.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
We were like the black sheep or the antichrist of the community at the time because we'd come out of the great recession and we were growing. And we were growing because we were doing things nobody else was doing. And I'll never forget because the competition was saying, you guys are ruining it for the rest of us. Because remember, when you're an outlier, they scored you first.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
We get those calls all the time as general contractors. We just can't, we're not the right fit, right? but I might give it to 10 competitors. And then whammo, a year and a half from now, I get the call. Hey, do you remember me, JJ? I'm like, nope. Like, well, you paid it forward with Bob and Bob ended up remodeling my house because you don't do residential. Well, guess what? I own a business.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Then they try to copy you once they realize successful, and then they try to emulate you at a whole nother level. So it was weird because when you see it, you don't really as it's happening in real time, you don't realize what's happening. But then kind of post facto, you look and go, we were onto something that taste.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Once you have that taste of entrepreneurship and when you have a successful organization where everyone tries to copy you, you can't get it out of your mouth.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
so the reason i'm setting this up is that when we decided to move to arizona i struggled when i moved down here because i walked away from that we were growing we're doing great things we're doing transcending things in hr policy using technology i mean i remember we were using go to meeting and zoom type stuff long before anyone else was and we encouraged and again this was taboo we encouraged hybrid kind of work at home type environment
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Think about that 15 years ago. That was like, what the F are you guys doing? But we hired the right people. When you hire the right people, that's all just bullshit. Right? Right. So move down here. And the first three years, I was just kind of a gypsy floating, doing roll up M&A type stuff. I got, I was just a headhunter, got me into that kind of thing. And I did it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And then rolled into, I'll never forget, I was doing a roll-up and I was getting bored with it because it was in the home services business, but it basically was just a one-call-close type business. I'm not going to mention names, but it felt dirty, Tommy, because all we were selling was financing. And that wasn't my passion. My passion is at the core of me, I'm a builder.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And I just saw this and I said, nah, I don't think this is for me long-term. Was it solar? No, it wasn't. Okay, okay. It was more like window replacement, bath replacement. And it just, it wasn't that it was dirty. It just, there was no building required. That was just, it was product. Product and financing. And I'm like, eh, this isn't me. But I've never quit anything in my life.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And I've never walked away without finding a replacement. So I'll never forget one night, I'm trying to find the replacement for me because these guys were nice to me and good to me. But I didn't want to leave them hanging by just quitting. So as I was doing that, I found my current partners and Jake and Josh Simonton, who were they own Starwood Custom Homes at the time.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And we just started talking because as I was looking that night, I saw them posting something like, why? I like their marketing. And, you know, it's a testament to what you always talk about. It's like if marketing can catch you, that's the hook, right? Have something special. They're authentic. And so they caught my attention. I went and met with them.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And next thing I know, we'd consummated a deal where we actually, truth be told, Blue Wave started as school builder. And at that time, Josh and a couple other guys had started this school builder type thing. And as many people know, Arizona was a leading catalyst in the charter school space.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
A lot of it has to do with, you know, the Mormon upbringing here and the strong centric values that's behind the way that religion is based on education and things like that. And the other thing is Arizona sucked at public education for so long that, you know, finally the populace was like, hey, this is the way we're going to go.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Now I'm adding on to my business. Will you do it for me? Whammo.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
So the challenge that they presented me with is, hey, listen, we've got all these connections in the charter school space. We do the front end real estate work, the entitlement, and we'll do the back end bond financing. But there's these other GCs that are doing this, the middle part where they're building these charter schools. JJ, could you do this? I'm like, yeah, I can do it in my sleep.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
So we went into a venture together under the school builder moniker where JJ here, I think I started with like $10,000 a laptop and I went and got the license. Okay. And bam, we built our first charter school that summer and then it just skyrocketed.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
So that was kind of what put my name on the map here locally, because I will, without tooting my own horn or our horn, is it was a Midwestern work ethic that we brought to the valley that was different at the time. At that summer, that summer, there was five charter schools being built. And it just so happens that myself and my superintendent at the time, that's all it was.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And we're in the trailer 24-7. And we took an attitude like we would have in the Midwest, which is we've only got this amount of time to get stuff in the ground because the snow's coming. Well, there's no snow in Arizona. But we have something else called the monsoons. So here it was, I think that was the summer of 2017. We were awarded our first contract.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
We built the, it was the American Leadership Academy campus right down by the Basha High School. And if I remember right, we did a turnkey, however many acres that was, 50,000 square feet plus or minus. And we brought it in in under 120 days turnkey. Wow. And everyone looked at us and went, what in the hell?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
I'll never forget the day that I had the meeting, Tommy, with the, he's no longer there, but it was the building official we got assigned from Gilbert. He showed up, I can't remember his name. And he's like, oh, this is how you use your online scheduling system. I said, well, is there a way that I can just have you out here every day? And he's like, well, why?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And I go, because I'm going to need you every day. I said, I got to be done in August. He's like, oh, well, it gives you a year and two months. I said, no, you dipshit. Like 90 days from now. He's like, no freaking way. So anyway, what happened? I'll try to give the Reader's Digest version is that that put us on the map because we outshined everyone else.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Not because they were we were better general contractors or they were worse general contractors. We took the mentality of seeing the end of the beginning and reverse engineering it and doing that. So where I'm going with this is we got all of our utilities done ahead of time. I got the sod in ahead of time so that when all the monsoons hit, we were done and we were just building the building.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Well, I got it dried in so that all of our trades could work inside. Weather didn't impact us. The other five schools that were being built in the valley at the time, none of them opened on time. They had all sorts of problems because they waited. They waited, they waited, they waited, and the monsoons killed them. And it was a wet summer that summer.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
So anyway, that was kind of the catalyst. And so coming out of that, I'll spare the audience the whole... We pivoted and iterated on some other things. We tried some other things. But then we soon realized that School Builder was myopic in our name. And we said, we've got to come up with a brand that has more just diversity.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And so we sat around and we did the old brainstorm where you got yellow stickers. You've done it before, whiteboarding. And we put up all these names. And one of them was Blue Wave, spelled B-L-U-E, Wave. It was based on, we had all read the book, Blue Ocean Strategy, which is a leadership business book. It's a great book. It is a great book. And we're like, hey, that's catchy.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And then we had some other names and we voted on it. And at that time, I think there were five of us. And so we said, let's stick with Blue Wave. Well, then we went to get the domains and the URLs and all that stuff. And the B-L-U-E spelling was taken by, I think it was like a kitchen remodeler and a sailboat. One was in California and one was up in Spokane, Washington.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And so we looked at each other and we're like, do we dare take the French spelling of blue? And we're like, let's do it. Let's try it. Okay. No lie, first eight weeks of existence, worst effing decision we've ever made in our lives. No one knew how to find us. Like Google, we don't come up anything because who's got the French spelling?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Nowadays, it's the best marketing play I could have asked for, right? Because people go, what's the significance of your name? Well, Tommy, if someone asks you about you and you get to tell your story, guess what? It makes it personal, right? Then the business transaction part becomes almost inconsequential. It's like if they can get to know you and what you're all about, then...
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
You're being humanized. You're not commoditized anymore. And I could have never planned that. So I tell people the story all the time is that was the best dumb mistake we ever made. Yeah.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
Yeah, all of it. So let me go to where, you know, what's, what's the ethos of this podcast? And that is, well, JJ, you're a commercial general contractor. What are you doing on home services podcast? So about three years ago, I had to look at myself in the mirror, much like, you know, a lot of the things that you talk about when you do your freedom events and a lot of your podcasting.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
is what defines you as a leader, an entrepreneur, and all those kind of things. And guess what? We're usually the best visionaries, but we're also the worst bottlenecks in our companies, right? So I had to make that decision. I looked at myself three years ago and said, I need freaking help. So I went to an executive retreat. up in Utah with a Navy SEAL guy that I knew and three other CEOs.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
It was the most profound week of my life. It turned me upside down. And it basically made me realize that, A, I've probably been on the spectrum my entire life, probably a high-performing form of Asperger's, that I can see things, but I do a terrible job of communicating. In other words, I can see the vision of a company. It's just hard for me to...
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
disseminate and authenticate it back down to troops and stuff like that. So I used to get frustrated. So I came out of that going, okay, I got to go hire some really good people. And the first thing I did was, and you've talked about this before, I went and found the best CFO that I couldn't afford. Notice I said couldn't afford. Yeah. And made that decision.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
And in that negotiation and in that thing, he and I decided that it was collective. We wanted to diversify our business to grow the enterprise value of Blue Wave because A, the margins in commercial general contracting are not attractive. They're not. They're low. They suck. Give me an example. 2% to 3%. Yeah. Right. And if you put anyone else on the show, that's where you'll be.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Building a Team That Builds the Business: How to Recruit Strategically
So think about it. You got to do $100 million to make two to $3 million to just reinvest in your business, not including the risk of what happens if you have to have to call out on one of your bonds or something. And no one will admit it, but the going rate for bidding is you're somewhere 4% to 7%. But by the time you take out your SG&A, you're down to 2% to 3%. And that's pretty typical.