Jodi Kantor

Oh, Debbie, I mean, that means the world.

Let's hope.

That would be... I think this is more important than anything else that we're doing in our worlds to help young people feel like they can still do what their heart tells them they should be doing is the most important work there is.

I'm not sure what to say, but thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for making so much work that matters.

Thank you for illuminating the world for us in ways that help us understand it.

And thank you for joining me today on Design Matters.

It's really been an honor and a pleasure.

Thank you.

Jodi's latest book is titled How to Start Discovering Your Life's Work.

You can read more about Jodi Kander's work on her website, jodikander.com, and her award-winning writing in the New York Times.

This is the 21st year we've been podcasting Design Matters, and I'd like to thank you for listening.

And remember, we can talk about making a difference, we can make a difference, or we can do both.

I'm Debbie Millman, and I look forward to talking with you again soon.

Thank you for being here.

Great to be with you.

It's a pretty common sense question, Michael, because if we look at the court's rulings, they are doing an enormous amount of work on the shadow docket.

These are really important rulings that bypass a lot of the time-tested steps of the court.

So part of what we're asking here is, let's go back to the beginning.