Joe Biden

So, you know, I think you look at Europe, you saw the prime minister of Spain already talking about deepening its relationship with China and so forth. So I think there's certainly a risk that just as we're turning away from the rest of the world, that the rest of the world, like, rethinks its relationship with us.

So, you know, I think you look at Europe, you saw the prime minister of Spain already talking about deepening its relationship with China and so forth. So I think there's certainly a risk that just as we're turning away from the rest of the world, that the rest of the world, like, rethinks its relationship with us.

You know, I started my career as a financial journalist in 2008, October 2008 specifically. So, you know, the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the failure of authorities then to sort of like stem that major bank run was to always, to my mind, the sort of defining event of my career. And, you know, I always thought it would be. And COVID for a second seemed like it could be that as well.

You know, I started my career as a financial journalist in 2008, October 2008 specifically. So, you know, the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the failure of authorities then to sort of like stem that major bank run was to always, to my mind, the sort of defining event of my career. And, you know, I always thought it would be. And COVID for a second seemed like it could be that as well.

But, you know, then obviously there was a pretty forceful economic response. And I, like a lot of people, were surprised to some extent the degree to which something resembling normalcy or something resembling the pre-COVID life came back to the pre-COVID economy and it actually came back extremely fast. This feels really different to me. This feels really different than 2008.

But, you know, then obviously there was a pretty forceful economic response. And I, like a lot of people, were surprised to some extent the degree to which something resembling normalcy or something resembling the pre-COVID life came back to the pre-COVID economy and it actually came back extremely fast. This feels really different to me. This feels really different than 2008.

And I think it's certainly plausible that it's a bigger deal than 2008. I don't know if it's going to be a bigger deal in terms of like unemployment per se, because I don't, you know, it's a different, it's different. But the idea, you know, this seems like one of those bells that's hard to unring because even, you know, the tariffs are still here. They don't seem like they're going anywhere.

And I think it's certainly plausible that it's a bigger deal than 2008. I don't know if it's going to be a bigger deal in terms of like unemployment per se, because I don't, you know, it's a different, it's different. But the idea, you know, this seems like one of those bells that's hard to unring because even, you know, the tariffs are still here. They don't seem like they're going anywhere.

In theory, the tariffs could be totally reversed, but it's hard to imagine the president credibly committing to never using them again, right? This is the problem. He could completely reverse the tariffs tomorrow, and then he could reverse himself the next day. And so I think people have really woken up to this idea that, like, the relationship that the U.S.

In theory, the tariffs could be totally reversed, but it's hard to imagine the president credibly committing to never using them again, right? This is the problem. He could completely reverse the tariffs tomorrow, and then he could reverse himself the next day. And so I think people have really woken up to this idea that, like, the relationship that the U.S.

will have to the rest of the world that, you know, to some extent had just been taken for granted, for better or worse. over the last, you know, several decades may not be the same again.

will have to the rest of the world that, you know, to some extent had just been taken for granted, for better or worse. over the last, you know, several decades may not be the same again.

And I don't think that's really sunk in yet. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely... Look, you know, Trump really... Maybe the word is credit, but you know, it was his administration in 2016 that sort of heightened this anxiety about China in general. And then there was a lot of carry-through to the Biden administration.

And I don't think that's really sunk in yet. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely... Look, you know, Trump really... Maybe the word is credit, but you know, it was his administration in 2016 that sort of heightened this anxiety about China in general. And then there was a lot of carry-through to the Biden administration.

I remember like in the 2020 primaries, like wondering with candidates, are you going to keep the then existing China tariffs? And there was a remarkable amount of continuity. In fact, I would say like...

I remember like in the 2020 primaries, like wondering with candidates, are you going to keep the then existing China tariffs? And there was a remarkable amount of continuity. In fact, I would say like...

It was probably like the most bipartisan consensus of any topic I could think of is this view that we have to change our relationship with China, that China is some sort of existential threat, whether it's economically or perhaps military, etc. Probably one of the most bipartisan views that there is. And, you know, I don't think I think by and large, like Democrats probably agree.

It was probably like the most bipartisan consensus of any topic I could think of is this view that we have to change our relationship with China, that China is some sort of existential threat, whether it's economically or perhaps military, etc. Probably one of the most bipartisan views that there is. And, you know, I don't think I think by and large, like Democrats probably agree.

at this point would say, no, let's like roll back the tariffs. But in general, right? But I do think like the relationship with China is probably on some level never going to go back to even the sort of 2020, you know, even the Biden era environment.

at this point would say, no, let's like roll back the tariffs. But in general, right? But I do think like the relationship with China is probably on some level never going to go back to even the sort of 2020, you know, even the Biden era environment.