Joe Carlsmith

dynamic here that we need to be able to hold both sides of as we kind of go into these trade-offs and these dilemmas and all sorts of stuff.

And like a lot of, part of what I'm trying to do in the series is like really kind of bring it all to the table at once.

One thing I want to flag is I don't think all forms of moral realism make this prediction.

And so that's just one point.

I'm happy to talk about the different forms I have in mind.

I think there are also forms of kind of things that kind of look like moral anti-realism, at least in their metaphysics, according to me, but which just posit that, in fact, there's this convergence.

It's not in virtue of interacting with some, like,

kind of mind independent moral truth, but just like, as it's just for some other reason, it's the case that, and that looks like a lot like moral realism at that point.

Cause it's kind of like, oh, it's really universal.

Like everyone ends up here and it's kind of tempted to be like, ah, like why?

Right.

Is that, and then whatever answer for the why is a little bit like, is that, is that the Tao?

Is that the nature of the Tao?

Even if there's not sort of an extra metaphysical realm in which the moral lives or something.

So, um,

uh, yeah, so, so moral convergence, I think is sort of a different factor from like the existence or non-existence of, um, kind of non-natural, like a kind of morality that's not reducible to natural facts, which is the type of moral realism I, I, I usually consider.

Um, now, okay.

So does the improvement of society, is that an update towards moral realism?

I mean, I guess like, uh, so I, I,

maybe it's like a very weak update or something.