Joe Liemandt

So the workshops that drive excitement, that drive kids loving it, what really engages it, it's not make the workshop easy.

The kids want to go do hard things.

They don't want to struggle and fail, but they want to struggle and fail on their road to success.

Now, they need to be supported by a caring adult.

You need high support and high standards.

When we talk about our guides, we should go into that.

But fundamentally, kids love it.

One of the things you'll see in the videos, McKinsey's Instagram is basically all the videos of all these workshops.

And all she does is just goes to school and films them and just films kids.

And there's like half a million or a million people who love it because you're like, wow, this is what school should be like.

We have kindergartners who climb a 40-foot rock wall.

And when you hear that, and you're not the alpha advisor of it, you're like, oh, that is so bad.

That's so whacked.

That's too hard.

But when you actually see the kids go through it, they love it.

But it's hard.

We mic up the kids as they're going up it.

And you'll see somebody that's just like, oh,

This is scary, but I have a growth mindset.

I can do this.