Joe Weisenthal

But there's also just like politics, right?

Winning elections.

And the fact that, you know, as you mentioned, failures become a scandal and they're on the paper and maybe like politicians lose their jobs and then someone comes in.

When you, just in your own personal work, when you like think about this stuff, like how much do you have to calculate the reality that

one big job of politicians is to win reelection.

And that a loss of election has the potential to just take the government in 90 or 180 degree turn from whatever the previous administration at any level in any country does.

And how much do you think about that reality when you're thinking about...

All right.

Professor Matsukado, thank you so much.

Great to finally catch up with you.

It took us all like randomly being in the same location in Madrid.

But thank you so much.

Thank you so much for coming on Oddlog.

Thank you so much for having me.

Tracy, I'm glad we finally caught up with Professor Matsukata.

This is definitely the place to do it.

I think it really did.

Her framing makes a lot of sense.

This idea that like outsourcing is not per se bad, that obviously any major mission is going to have to have significant private sector funding.

involvement and innovation, even if it's somehow publicly led, but that there's no chance of going anywhere if the public sector doesn't have the internal muscle of who to talk to or who to talk to at the right time.