John Eligon

He also calls them the victims of, quote, unjust racial discrimination. So what this does is essentially it opens up a pathway now for refugee status, for someone to come to the U.S. as refugees. And in this case, it's specifically Afrikaners who can come to the U.S. as refugees. So after he signs this executive order, this effort to get Afrikaners in America, it proceeded with stunning speed.

He also calls them the victims of, quote, unjust racial discrimination. So what this does is essentially it opens up a pathway now for refugee status, for someone to come to the U.S. as refugees. And in this case, it's specifically Afrikaners who can come to the U.S. as refugees. So after he signs this executive order, this effort to get Afrikaners in America, it proceeded with stunning speed.

Usually it takes years to get refugees into the U.S. But three months after this executive order is issued, we have the first Afrikaner refugees, 59 of them, lined up at the airport in Johannesburg waiting to get on a flight to the U.S.

Usually it takes years to get refugees into the U.S. But three months after this executive order is issued, we have the first Afrikaner refugees, 59 of them, lined up at the airport in Johannesburg waiting to get on a flight to the U.S.

John, the inevitable question here would seem to be, how much has this decision by the president and those around him truly been about the circumstances of Afrikaners in South Africa? and the threat level against them. Because of this land law, because of everything else we've been talking about, and how much has it been about circumstances within the United States?

John, the inevitable question here would seem to be, how much has this decision by the president and those around him truly been about the circumstances of Afrikaners in South Africa? and the threat level against them. Because of this land law, because of everything else we've been talking about, and how much has it been about circumstances within the United States?

The perceived threat level against... white citizens here? In other words, is this about the tale of the Afrikaners or that cautionary tale that Trump and those around him feel it represents to white Americans? Or is it both?

The perceived threat level against... white citizens here? In other words, is this about the tale of the Afrikaners or that cautionary tale that Trump and those around him feel it represents to white Americans? Or is it both?

I think by most objective measures, the facts on the ground in South Africa do not match up with the way Trump has described the situation there for Afrikaners. Obviously, there are cases, like we've said, where Afrikaners are killed. And there is a sincere perception, I believe, among Afrikaners many Afrikaners I've spoken with, that they are targeted, that they are treated unfairly.

I think by most objective measures, the facts on the ground in South Africa do not match up with the way Trump has described the situation there for Afrikaners. Obviously, there are cases, like we've said, where Afrikaners are killed. And there is a sincere perception, I believe, among Afrikaners many Afrikaners I've spoken with, that they are targeted, that they are treated unfairly.

That is a sincere belief that I think a lot of them do have. That said... When you look at Trump's attention to this issue, it seems very much motivated by domestic circumstances in America. If you listen to people in Trump's orbit... We're required to pretend this isn't happening, but it is happening.

That is a sincere belief that I think a lot of them do have. That said... When you look at Trump's attention to this issue, it seems very much motivated by domestic circumstances in America. If you listen to people in Trump's orbit... We're required to pretend this isn't happening, but it is happening.

Many of them will point to South Africa and say South Africa is the example. of what America will become if we allow these diversity, equity, and inclusion policies to just run rampant.

Many of them will point to South Africa and say South Africa is the example. of what America will become if we allow these diversity, equity, and inclusion policies to just run rampant.

So by targeting South Africa, Trump builds points with his base in the U.S., which very much frowns upon any sort of legal measure or any sort of initiatives that even have a whiff of trying to address racial injustice in a way that makes it seem like it's discriminating against white people.

So by targeting South Africa, Trump builds points with his base in the U.S., which very much frowns upon any sort of legal measure or any sort of initiatives that even have a whiff of trying to address racial injustice in a way that makes it seem like it's discriminating against white people.

I wonder if within the Trump administration, this feels akin to taking their domestic values, which they have been very firm about, like you said, rolling back diversity initiatives across government and even the private sector, and putting those now at the center of U.S. foreign policy. Yeah.

I wonder if within the Trump administration, this feels akin to taking their domestic values, which they have been very firm about, like you said, rolling back diversity initiatives across government and even the private sector, and putting those now at the center of U.S. foreign policy. Yeah.

And saying if this is going to be central to how we treat domestic policy, this will be central to how we treat our relationships across the world.

And saying if this is going to be central to how we treat domestic policy, this will be central to how we treat our relationships across the world.