John Eligon

The U.S. government, Trump's administration, has said that explicitly that they were cutting funding for programs that they believe further these issues of DEI, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion. So undoubtedly what you're saying, Michael, is the case in terms of that they are sort of putting their own judgment and their own values on what they see is happening in South Africa. Yeah.

The U.S. government, Trump's administration, has said that explicitly that they were cutting funding for programs that they believe further these issues of DEI, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion. So undoubtedly what you're saying, Michael, is the case in terms of that they are sort of putting their own judgment and their own values on what they see is happening in South Africa. Yeah.

And I'll also note, when you talk to South Africans, you know, whether that be government officials or just some case ordinary South Africans, that for them is what feels like a frustrating thing, is that even if you want to accept that in America, maybe some of these... initiatives, these laws and policies don't stack up.

And I'll also note, when you talk to South Africans, you know, whether that be government officials or just some case ordinary South Africans, that for them is what feels like a frustrating thing, is that even if you want to accept that in America, maybe some of these... initiatives, these laws and policies don't stack up.

They're saying, look, we have our own unique history here, a history where most people still have a living memory of apartheid because it's only 31 years ago. That legacy is so baked in here that we clearly have to do things to change that. And that we also have a majority black population, an 80% black population that continues to struggle, that continues to suffer.

They're saying, look, we have our own unique history here, a history where most people still have a living memory of apartheid because it's only 31 years ago. That legacy is so baked in here that we clearly have to do things to change that. And that we also have a majority black population, an 80% black population that continues to struggle, that continues to suffer.

And so our context is a little bit different.

And so our context is a little bit different.

Because in reality, these are simply not analogous societies.

Because in reality, these are simply not analogous societies.

Yeah, for a lot of Black South Africans to see Afrikaners being labeled as the persecuted people in their society, it just is shocking and flies in the face of their reality as they describe it. A lot of Black South Africans will say, you know, life here continues to be very difficult. Unemployment is very high. Crime is really bad. When people do find jobs, you know, the wages aren't very good.

Yeah, for a lot of Black South Africans to see Afrikaners being labeled as the persecuted people in their society, it just is shocking and flies in the face of their reality as they describe it. A lot of Black South Africans will say, you know, life here continues to be very difficult. Unemployment is very high. Crime is really bad. When people do find jobs, you know, the wages aren't very good.

They don't have stable housing. So the truth is a lot of black South Africans, if they had a chance to go to the U.S. as refugees, they probably would love to take up that offer.

They don't have stable housing. So the truth is a lot of black South Africans, if they had a chance to go to the U.S. as refugees, they probably would love to take up that offer.

But there is no such offer.

But there is no such offer.

But there is no such offer. And I think a lot of Black South Africans, they feel that for the Trump administration, this is not about how much someone is suffering, but it's about the type of person they want in their country.

But there is no such offer. And I think a lot of Black South Africans, they feel that for the Trump administration, this is not about how much someone is suffering, but it's about the type of person they want in their country.

And ultimately, that makes it no longer about persecution. but about who fits the image that this administration wants to see in the country.

And ultimately, that makes it no longer about persecution. but about who fits the image that this administration wants to see in the country.