John Gafford

And what was the mission of Innovative Apps?

OK, talk about that.

What do you mean you spent too much money?

Market fit is the most important, that's the important part of the equation.

I tell people all the time, I have $100,000 bottle of vitamins sitting on my desk for the same reason.

Look, if you're listening to this and you're out there and you have some miraculous idea that's gonna change the world,

maybe throw it out there and see if anybody actually wants to buy it before you get in the business of building a logo and a website for the company.

Well, I think that's, you know, that's the best thing that people don't realize that Kickstarter did was it really is this super incubator to see if your idea is a good idea.

Correct.

Like if you have a product,

you need to start a Kickstarter with a social media campaign to see if anybody wants to pre-order it before it's even made.

A lot of people don't realize that a lot of those products on Kickstarter, what you're seeing them run around with in the cool flashy videos is probably held together with duct tape and super glue and probably doesn't really work.

It's just, let's see if this is something we should invest all the R&D money into making it work and getting that done.

So

You tried to do an app business because, of course, you go from IT to app, of course.

Exactly.

Nobody wanted to buy it.

So how did you, let's walk through that.

And no, I'm not trying to beat you up over your failures.

No, please.