John Gafford

I think there's a place to, you know, obviously challenging ideas in that sort of things.

And you can say like, hey, I heard this person say this and I just, you know, I see it differently.

This is maybe I'll see it.

When you start attacking somebody personally, which this was a very personal, like saying this person who's an absolute savage in business was just full of shit.

Wow.

And I was like...

where is this coming from?

And they got eviscerated by the actual person.

Absolutely eviscerated.

But I don't see that as a win, man.

I see that as, is that really what we need?

Like, I think people get so like, that's one of the things I'm going to tell people.

And I, hopefully you're telling people this too.

stay the course.

Like you said, why do this?

Because you want to be known, like, and trusted.

Exactly.

Like I know who Jerry Springer is.

I don't, I wouldn't trust that dude to tell my story.

I wouldn't trust that dude to be on a mic for him because I know that, that, you know, obviously he's gone now, but you know, the whole format of that show was to exploit you for clicks.