John Lisle

Well, you know, I mean, they gave me this truth drug.

Of course, I'm going to have to say this.

So I can't be blamed.

No one's going to blame me.

So it takes kind of the burden off their shoulders if they think they've been given a truth drug, even if they haven't.

Just give them a sugar pill.

So that actually turned out to be a lot more effective than any of the drugs that they actually tried.

That totally makes sense.

They did the same thing with hypnotism, too.

The hypnotism turned out to be not that effective in at least an interrogation.

But if you could convince someone that they had been hypnotized, even if they hadn't, then that could be effective.

So, for instance, this is what a guy called Martin Oren.

He was one of the psychologists who was in charge of one of these subprojects.

But he he put forward what's called the hypnotic situation, not hypnotism, but the hypnotic situation.

So, for instance, you pretend to hypnotize someone, the person you're interrogating, and they know they're not hypnotized.

They obviously can tell that, you know, you're not controlling me.

This nothing's happening.

However, you start saying things like.

you know, I'm hypnotizing you and your hands are getting warmer and they're going to think to themselves, no, they're not.

But under the table, you secretly implanted a heater and their hands actually are getting warmer because where they're sitting, there's this heater under that that they don't know exists and it's making their hands warmer.